Catherine Bott's new Classic FM Show

[Barbirollians]

Mattbod


I think this is a most unreasonable thing to say. To begin with, I don’t believe Catherine Bott would have taken the job if she had been offered a programme to present in this way. As I have repeatedly said, the programme is not meant to be for someone like you. Of course it sounds all wrong to you. I’d say what you are saying is almost the reverse of a regular CFM listener saying that Building a Library is stuck up and boring. A wrong kind of listener. CFM has (I assume) never pretended or bothered to replace Radio3. It’s Radio3 that is trying to replace itself. If you are ranting about R3, fine, but leave CFM and Catherine Bott’s programme alone. It is catering for people who prefer to listen to classical music as just nice music or background music. CFM is not depriving anyone of opportunities to listen to classical music seriously. Radio3 is. We are talking about adults who have a choice. Well, we nearly don’t these days, but that’s not, I repeat, CFM’s doing.

Incidentally, I have no vested interest in CFM. I don’t even know how to get the station on my radio. I have heard its programme in a friend’s car and a few other places and have never bothered to tune in.

doversoul - I am afraid that I believe that you have a rather rose tinted view of Classic FM as a light classical station that affects nobody else but its listeners .

I disagree . Its influence on Radio 3 is pernicious . It is the epitome of the " people today cannot cope with high culture save in small bites due to their lack of a concentration span culture " - it peddles puffed up artists like Bocelli. Jenkins and composers of crossover rubbish . If you had the impression that it was nothing more than Your Hundred Best Tunes and More Melodies for You on continuous loop you are much mistaken .

[doversoul1]

doversoul - I am afraid that I believe that you have a rather rose tinted view of Classic FM as a light classical station that affects nobody else but its listeners .

I disagree . Its influence on Radio 3 is pernicious . It is the epitome of the " people today cannot cope with high culture save in small bites due to their lack of a concentration span culture " - it peddles puffed up artists like Bocelli. Jenkins and composers of crossover rubbish . If you had the impression that it was nothing more than Your Hundred Best Tunes and More Melodies for You on continuous loop you are much mistaken .

CFM is doing what a commercial radio station does. I’d be very concerned if Radio3 were a smaller commercial station but it isn’t. There is no need for Radio3 to be influenced by a commercial station how large it may be. My point is, we should be angry with Radio3 or BBC, not with CFM.

I don’t see why you need to condemn 'artists like Bocelli. Jenkins and composers of crossover'. Popular taste in classical music has always existed, and it should not be a threat to Radio3 if only whoever running the station were not so completely spineless.

[french frank]

doversoul - I am afraid that I believe that you have a rather rose tinted view of Classic FM as a light classical station that affects nobody else but its listeners .

I disagree . Its influence on Radio 3 is pernicious .

What is wrong is that Radio 3 should be in any way 'influenced' by Classic FM. It should have its own remit and stick to it, regardless of what Classic FM does.

The idiocy of the BBC Trust is that, having carried out 'research' and finding there was an audience which could perceive Radio 3 to be 'slightly daunting and inaccessible at times', they then deemed that a reason to allow Radio 3's current management to continue with its strategy to attract people 'with little knowledge of classical music' - like Classic FM. Total ignorance on the part of the Trust and some sort of publicity-crazed ego trip on the part of Radio 3's 'management'. "How we brought classical music into the cultural mainstream." Bankrupt.

[Beef Oven!]

What is wrong is that Radio 3 should be in any way 'influenced' by Classic FM. It should have its own remit and stick to it, regardless of what Classic FM does.

The idiocy of the BBC Trust is that, having carried out 'research' and finding there was an audience which could perceive Radio 3 to be 'slightly daunting and inaccessible at times', they then deemed that a reason to allow Radio 3's current management to continue with its strategy to attract people 'with little knowledge of classical music' - like Classic FM. Total ignorance on the part of the Trust and some sort of publicity-crazed ego trip on the part of Radio 3's 'management'. "How we brought classical music into the cultural mainstream." Bankrupt.

But even this seems like an esoteric debate.

Surely it's not about 'classical' music and listeners/audience that have huge amounts/little/no knowledge of 'classical music', but listeners that are curious and interested in 'music'.

I'd argue that that's a different group of people. I'd also argue that it's a big group of people.

[french frank]

Surely it's not about 'classical' music and listeners/audience that have huge amounts/little/no knowledge of 'classical music', but listeners that are curious and interested in 'music'.

I'd argue that that's a different group of people. I'd also argue that it's a big group of people.

I'm happy to agree with you, Beefy. The quotes round 'with little knowledge of classical music' are because it's directly from the Trust's review of Radio 3 - as an explanation of why they were endorsing Radio 3's proposal.

And it's mainly the 'classical music' output that is affected by the strategy. The speech, jazz and world music output may not be perfect, but it is at least aimed at your 'different group of people'. So is the contemporary, because, obviously, the new target audience won't be wanting to listen to that anyway. Just as long as there's not much and it's stuck in the graveyard slots

[gurnemanz]

It is impossible to categorise types of listener (R3 serious v. CFM shallow). Individuals perceive the same piece of music in their own individual way, via whichever radio station or other medium they hear it. My taste is very broad and eclectic (Beatles to Bartók, so to speak) and I like to keep an open mind and find new stuff that tickles my fancy. If asked to name one "favourite" work, it would be Parsifal, but I might also have taken the name Autolycus rather than Gurnemanz on here (the roguish but ultimately well-meaning pedlar in "Winter's Tale who described himself as "a snapper-up of unconsidered trifles"). I enjoy Cole Porter and Bob Dylan songs just as much Schubert Lieder. A lot of rock music or jazz I know is more serious, intellectual, "harder" and profounder than quite a lot of "classical" music in my collection. I actually am a "Friend of Radio 3", which is why I joined this board when the BBC closed theirs and I much prefer the R3 style to that of CFM, despite its annoyances frequently discussed here.

[Beef Oven!]

It is impossible to categorise types of listener (R3 serious v. CFM shallow). Individuals perceive the same piece of music in their own individual way, via whichever radio station or other medium they hear it. My taste is very broad and eclectic (Beatles to Bartók, so to speak) and I like to keep an open mind and find new stuff that tickles my fancy. If asked to name one "favourite" work, it would be Parsifal, but I might also have taken the name Autolycus rather than Gurnemanz on here (the roguish but ultimately well-meaning pedlar in "Winter's Tale who described himself as "a snapper-up of unconsidered trifles"). I enjoy Cole Porter and Bob Dylan songs just as much Schubert Lieder. A lot of rock music or jazz I know is more serious, intellectual, "harder" and profounder than quite a lot of "classical" music in my collection. I actually am a "Friend of Radio 3", which is why I joined this board when the BBC closed theirs and I much prefer the R3 style to that of CFM, despite its annoyances frequently discussed here.

You might want to try the 'kitchen table test'.

On those wonderful obesity, thin/fat (whatever they're called) TV programmes, they try to shock the participants by laying out on the table all the food that they have eaten in the last month. Rarely does the view from the table tally with the corpulent person's perception of what they have eaten!

Spread your concert tickets, CD purchases, music books etc, from the last twelve months, on the table and see if it tallies with your perception.

[doversoul1]

It is impossible to categorise types of listener (R3 serious v. CFM shallow). Individuals perceive the same piece of music in their own individual way, via whichever radio station or other medium they hear it. My taste is very broad and eclectic (Beatles to Bartók, so to speak) and I like to keep an open mind and find new stuff that tickles my fancy. If asked to name one "favourite" work, it would be Parsifal, but I might also have taken the name Autolycus rather than Gurnemanz on here (the roguish but ultimately well-meaning pedlar in "Winter's Tale who described himself as "a snapper-up of unconsidered trifles"). I enjoy Cole Porter and Bob Dylan songs just as much Schubert Lieder. A lot of rock music or jazz I know is more serious, intellectual, "harder" and profounder than quite a lot of "classical" music in my collection. I actually am a "Friend of Radio 3", which is why I joined this board when the BBC closed theirs and I much prefer the R3 style to that of CFM, despite its annoyances frequently discussed here.

I don’t think there are two fixed groups of listeners for each station. I assume a lot of people listen to both stations depending on their mood or situations, in the same way as most people listen to different types of music. The question is not about listeners but about the purpose of each station. The reason CFM broadcasts classical music is profoundly different from that of Radio3. That is why we shouldn’t criticise Catherine Bott’s new programme by the criteria we’d use for Radio3’s programmes. It is aimed at people who are listening for different reasons from the reasons most of us have when we listen to Radio3.

CFM is simply pursuing its purpose whereas Radio3 has forsaken its purpose and pretending to be something else. It despairs me.

[Don Petter]

CFM is simply pursuing its purpose whereas Radio3 has forsaken its purpose and is pretending to be something else. It despairs me.

Quite!

[teamsaint]

But even this seems like an esoteric debate.

Surely it's not about 'classical' music and listeners/audience that have huge amounts/little/no knowledge of 'classical music', but listeners that are curious and interested in 'music'.

I'd argue that that's a different group of people. I'd also argue that it's a big group of people.

why do you think this? do you perhaps mean (not wishing to try to put words into your mouth) that it is lots of small groups of people?

[Beef Oven!]

why do you think this? do you perhaps mean (not wishing to try to put words into your mouth) that it is lots of small groups of people?

Certainly ts, yes there are many different sub-groups within. But I think there are, in broad terms, two types of people/audience/listeners when it comes to music; those who can take it or leave it and those who are curious and interested. These, to me are the boundaries. and of course the level of curiosity and interest varies.

I think that for example, many people in this forum would be astounded to be told that they are only 'fairly' interested in music and not the least bit curious about their 'passion'.

[Mattbod]

One very good asset that Classic FM do have (and underuse) is Howard Goodall. Not only is he a talented composer but also a very gifted writer and broadcaster. I mentioned his book "Big Bangs" in the book thread which deals with esoteric matter as temperament and the birth of notation in an entertaining and yet rigorous manner. his TV series on the Organ, Choirs (and the big bangs series too) are perfect examples of good quality documentary by a lively personality without any patronising dumbing down or treating the viewer like a fool. All I was saying above is that these people should not talk to people new to classical music as if they were thick/ have a short attention span. I do not know where the heck they get such an idea from?