Catherine Bott's new Classic FM Show

[Beef Oven!]

Any evidence for this startling assertion?

You startle very easily, how do you get through the day?

It's a bit of an 'old gitism' on my part. But I think you know what I mean. I'll pretend that you're not doing your usual wind-up job and respond to you seriously.

Texts, emails etc are a mainstream form of communication, that goes on every second of the day, yet the spelling, grammer, sentence construction etc goes out of the window.

People seem to have no difficulty understanding one another and the world keeps turning.

When I was a kid, adults told me the world would stop if I used a double negative.

No-one cares any more about formal things as much as they did. I went into a Chinese restaurant the other day and there was a bloke wearing a check jacket - it was a SUnday!!!!!!

If we get bogged down in such things, we become irrelevant to the majority - along with anything we're trying to say, do or impart.

Have you not noticed how more relaxed things are in this day and age?

[amateur51]

You startle very easily, how do you get through the day?

It's a bit of an 'old gitism' on my part. But I think you know what I mean. I'll pretend that you're not doing your usual wind-up job and respond to you seriously.

Texts, emails etc are a mainstream form of communication, that goes on every second of the day, yet the spelling, grammer, sentence construction etc goes out of the window.

People seem to have no difficulty understanding one another and the world keeps turning.

When I was a kid, adults told me the world would stop if I used a double negative.

No-one cares any more about formal things as much as they did. I went into a Chinese restaurant the other day and there was a bloke wearing a check jacket - it was a SUnday!!!!!!

If we get bogged down in such things, we become irrelevant to the majority - along with anything we're trying to say, do or impart.

Have you not noticed how more relaxed things are in this day and age?

Aaah it's an opinion - why didn't you say?

I do notice how many other people often fail to grasp what you mean, initially.

[Beef Oven!]

Aaah it's an opinion - why didn't you say?

I do notice how many other people often fail to grasp what you mean, initially.

No it's a fact, expressed as an opinion.



Which people? People in this forum? That's positive I'd say.

You notice the best in people? No, that's not what you meant. Why are you unhappy? Or maybe you don't want to talk about it.

[amateur51]

No it's a fact, expressed as an opinion.



Which people? People in this forum? That's positive I'd say.

You notice the best in people? No, that's not what you meant. Why are you unhappy? Or maybe you don't want to talk about it.

A fact, you say.

So ... any evidence for this fact?

[Beef Oven!]

A fact, you say.

So ... any evidence for this fact?

I respect your wishes. We won't talk about it - mum's the word.

[Beef Oven!]

There seems to me to be no reason at all why 'classical music' should not be, in that sense 'popular' except that other kinds of 'popular' music have crowded it out of the marketplace so that it seems both 'different' and 'unattractive'.

You make it sound as if classical music is a passive bystander and it's all about what other music genres have done.

Everything has to refresh, change, improve. Classical music has stoically stuck to it's elitist ethos. This is palpable in R3 broadcasting, which really is really only mirroring its traditional dwindling audience.

[Mattbod]

Beef Oven: On the contrary I think the Radio 3 audience is dying off because of the dumbing down, the endless repeats and the killing off or slimming down of popular shows and the almost total neglect of drama now.

Ohh and why can't Classic FM play Stockhausen? Maybe I should ask again. If it is good enough for Pollini and they want contemporary music

...

[Barbirollians]

Part of it is that over a couple of generations, the BBC has removed most classical music from the mainstream ('popular') services. At one time the Home Service used to broadcast Proms concerts. They got bigger audiences than the same concert got on the Third. That's mainly to do with the 'audience expectations' - they expected the Home Service to be inviting and the Third to be uninviting. But a couple of generations now hardly have any contact with classical music on the BBC except on one small distant place which people aren't quite sure how to find or what to expect.


(I use 'popular' to mean 'which attract large, even 'mass', audiences). There seems to me to be no reason at all why 'classical music' should not be, in that sense 'popular' except that other kinds of 'popular' music have crowded it out of the marketplace so that it seems both 'different' and 'unattractive'. If you notice some product that doesn't sell well, you tend to think there's something wrong with it, it's not up to standard.

The BBC opted to follow the popular/populist route long ago. Classic FM has shown that younger audiences can appreciate the music. The BBC lost its nerve. [All views expressed are my own]

Light classical music used to be a significant part of Radio 2 - not any more . Radio 2 was where that cinema season should have been - now it is largely just pop music for the over 35s.

[french frank]

Everything has to refresh, change, improve. Classical music has stoically stuck to it's elitist ethos. This is palpable in R3 broadcasting, which really is really only mirroring its traditional dwindling audience.

That's your opinion. I have largely given up listening because to me what you say is the opposite of the reality.

As Richard Osborne wrote: 'Will an informed audience even exist in thirty years time'? (That's twenty years time now). The answer is No, it won't. It barely exists now. In fact an informed Radio 3 barely exists now because it equates being 'informed' with your 'elitist ethos', which at all costs must be shunned.

Can anyone suggest what has been gained by this other than a parallel station to Classic FM?

[Beef Oven!]

That's your opinion. I have largely given up listening because to me what you say is the opposite of the reality.

As Richard Osborne wrote: 'Will an informed audience even exist in thirty years time'? (That's twenty years time now). The answer is No, it won't. It barely exists now. In fact an informed Radio 3 barely exists now because it equates being 'informed' with your 'elitist ethos', which at all costs must be shunned.

Can anyone suggest what has been gained by this other than a parallel station to Classic FM?

Reality is socially constructed, and I am a bit surprised that you were listening in the first place.

Thinking about your Richard Osborne reference, I would say subscribers would do well to give as much thought to 'how others see us'. The danger is that you might be living in an ivory tower. I'm sure, if you're still listening, you've heard all this before.

Of course the 'informed audience' barely exists and will be gone before long - it was part of a different culture; just as people of my generation who sat in front of the Beeb and were told "be quiet, over the next hour you will be educated and you will learn something that you didn't know before" don't exist any more. I loved all that and I wish it were still the same, but young people have changed and they'd never go for that like we did.

I think you might find that the Boy Scout movement isn't what it used to be either, for example.

And, being informed is one thing, and being elitist is quite another.

[Mattbod]

The whole popularism thing really makes me angry. The equating with informed programming with elitism is incredibly patronising and shows all that is wrong with society today. People should be encouraged to reach for the stars and be inspired to understand great art. To say that they cannot is hypocritical cant. Read the books of the Victorian era by people like Elizabeth Gaskill. Dickens' Hard Times or even D.H Lawrence's "Aaron's Rod".Such people did not have a privileged schooling but had a thirst for knowledge and pursued it. Can one do this at a public library now for instance? No because they are chock full of paperback pulp fiction and celebrity biography. My grandfather (born in 1917 ) was the middle child of a single mother who ran a hardware shop, his father having run off with another woman. He managed to self educate himself (with occasional advice from a cinema pianist) in music reaching the position of assistant church organist by 14. He would have taken the view of informed programming equaling elitism and any dumbing down as insulting.

I may be wrong but I believe it is a case of an educated elite trying to keep people in their place. How dare these pseudo socialist mainly Oxbridge educated people tell people what they can or cannot understand. Of course part of the problem stems from an education system that teaches to the test and has no use or time for inspiring kids and encouraging intellectual curiosity. Add to that a dire popular culture that encourages a race to the bottom and this is the sorry result. I am no elitist. I come from a rock solid working class background and it was from that background that my interest in music, literature, politics and art was fostered. I just hope if Catherine is reading this that she strives for much higher standards than the rather patronising drivel she is spewing out so far (which i guess is a provided script)

Rant over

[MickyD]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Mattbod. My own grandfather (b. 1892) was another illustration of the point you are making. He was brought up during the late 1800s in the roughest area of Hoxton, East London, and yet despite leaving school at 14, he somehow managed to acquire a thirst for good literature. When I knew him, he was never without a good book by the side of his chair. He passed on to me his love of Dickens, frequently quoting favourite passages from the novels which he knew by heart, as well as long verses of poetry.

[Barbirollians]

Jeanette Winterson in recent memoir makes a telling point . The shelves of English literature at accrington library that were her solace from her background and led her to where she went are gone and replaced with pulp fiction.

[teamsaint]

Mattbod gets my "Rant of the Day" vote.

Much truth in that post.

[doversoul1]

Mattbod

I just hope if Catherine is reading this that she strives for much higher standards than the rather patronising drivel she is spewing out so far (which i guess is a provided script)

I think this is a most unreasonable thing to say. To begin with, I don’t believe Catherine Bott would have taken the job if she had been offered a programme to present in this way. As I have repeatedly said, the programme is not meant to be for someone like you. Of course it sounds all wrong to you. I’d say what you are saying is almost the reverse of a regular CFM listener saying that Building a Library is stuck up and boring. A wrong kind of listener. CFM has (I assume) never pretended or bothered to replace Radio3. It’s Radio3 that is trying to replace itself. If you are ranting about R3, fine, but leave CFM and Catherine Bott’s programme alone. It is catering for people who prefer to listen to classical music as just nice music or background music. CFM is not depriving anyone of opportunities to listen to classical music seriously. Radio3 is. We are talking about adults who have a choice. Well, we nearly don’t these days, but that’s not, I repeat, CFM’s doing.

Incidentally, I have no vested interest in CFM. I don’t even know how to get the station on my radio. I have heard its programme in a friend’s car and a few other places and have never bothered to tune in.