Musical talents that never quite made it....

[Boilk]

Alexander Goehr, Philip Grange, George Benjamin. Composers who seem(ed) to have somewhat tapered off by middle age?

I remember when the latter was trumpeted as the next Benjamin Britten (hardly his fault) but he writes rather little (though it consistently impresses the musical intelligentsia) and they are usually short pieces, so he doesn't seem to be as creatively fluent as Britten was. The early write-ups in the '80s were perhaps too gushing. Will be watching his 'new' opera soon, Written on Skin.

[Boilk]

Another composer who, perhaps justifiably, remains unknown...

[Hornspieler]

Alexander Goehr, Philip Grange, George Benjamin. Composers who seem(ed) to have somewhat tapered off by middle age?

I remember when the latter was trumpeted as the next Benjamin Britten (hardly his fault) but he writes rather little (though it consistently impresses the musical intelligentsia) and they are usually short pieces, so he doesn't seem to be as creatively fluent as Britten was. The early write-ups in the '80s were perhaps too gushing. Will be watching his 'new' opera soon, Written on Skin.

Alexander "Sandy" Goehr was one of the founders of the "Manchester School", which included in its membership Birtwistle, Maxwell Davies, Susan Bradshaw, Cornelius Cardew, Richard Rodney Bennet among others who latched on to the idea that the music(sic) they were churning out would be acceptable to those whose ears were used to melody, harmony and logical progression in their musical appreciation.

This thread is about musical talents.
Only two - possibly three of those named above could be so described.

Only my personal view, of course, but I did spend a fortnight working with all of them with John Carewe's "New Music Ensemble" at the Dartington Summer School in 1957.

HS

[rauschwerk]

James Galway
Nigel Kennedy.
Vanessa Mae
Alison Balsom
Katherine Jenkins
Nicola Benedetti
Lang Lang

...going back a little in time:

Kenneth McKeller
Webster Booth

HS

I heard Alison Balsom at the Snape Proms in August with the English Concert. There was nothing of the 'great I am' about her. Behaving very much as primus inter pares, she played the natural trumpet beautifully, especially in an arrangement of Fairest Isle.

[Barbirollians]

I heard Alison Balsom at the Snape Proms in August with the English Concert. There was nothing of the 'great I am' about her. Behaving very much as primus inter pares, she played the natural trumpet beautifully, especially in an arrangement of Fairest Isle.

Yes, I agree, her good looks may have meant that she has had a marketing advantage over other similarly talented trumpeters but she is a very fine player . Her discs are serious too - her record of 20th century works for example . There have been no theme from Love story arranged for trumpet etc

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Alexander "Sandy" Goehr was one of the founders of the "Manchester School", which included in its membership ... Susan Bradshaw

No, it didn't.

Cornelius Cardew

No, it didn't

Richard Rodney Bennet

No it didn't.

Still, don't let a few pesky facts get in the way of a good rant, eh, HS.

among others

... such as John Ogdon and Elgar Howarth.

who latched on to the idea that the music(sic) they were churning out would be acceptable to those whose ears were used to melody, harmony and logical progression in their musical appreciation.

As accurate as you have led us to expect, HS.

This thread is about musical talents.
Only two - possibly three of those named above could be so described.

Only my personal view, of course, but I did spend a fortnight working with all of them with John Carewe's "New Music Ensemble" at the Dartington Summer School in 1957.

Carewe nothing to do with the New Music, Manchester group, either. Still, interesting that you took part in the World Premiere of Alma Redemptoris Mater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1yrN4WdZPE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EePEKZOMDLk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY6nJMeC9tk

... sad that it was as lost on you as Wagner's premieres were on Franz Strauss.

Which work(s) by Birtwistle did you play, by the way?

[Pianoman]

Alexander "Sandy" Goehr was one of the founders of the "Manchester School", which included in its membership Birtwistle, Maxwell Davies, Susan Bradshaw, Cornelius Cardew, Richard Rodney Bennet among others who latched on to the idea that the music(sic) they were churning out would be acceptable to those whose ears were used to melody, harmony and logical progression in their musical appreciation.

This thread is about musical talents.
Only two - possibly three of those named above could be so described.

Only my personal view, of course, but I did spend a fortnight working with all of them with John Carewe's "New Music Ensemble" at the Dartington Summer School in 1957.

HS

What a ridiculously outdated view - surely a p*** take ?

[MrGongGong]

I heard Alison Balsom at the Snape Proms in August with the English Concert. There was nothing of the 'great I am' about her. Behaving very much as primus inter pares, she played the natural trumpet beautifully, especially in an arrangement of Fairest Isle.

I thought that Alison Balsom in your list was very odd indeed

Also , even though many don't like him, having met Lang Lang and heard him play (not the music I would normally go for either) I don't think he fits your list
neither does Nige but people seem more concerned with his hair than his fiddle playing.......

No, it didn't.


No, it didn't


No it didn't.

Still, don't let a few pesky facts get in the way of a good rant, eh, HS.


... such as John Ogdon and Elgar Howarth.



As accurate as you have led us to expect, HS.


Carewe nothing to do with the New Music, Manchester group, either. Still, interesting that you took part in the World Premiere of Alma Redemptoris Mater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1yrN4WdZPE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EePEKZOMDLk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY6nJMeC9tk

... sad that it was as lost on you as Wagner's premieres were on Franz Strauss.

Which work(s) by Birtwistle did you play, by the way?

Well put

[Barbirollians]

HS is entitled to his personal view as he properly puts it . The fact that fhgl likes works such as that PMD piece that he directed us to on YT ( albeit without warning us what it sounded like ) is equally a personal view as much as it is presented as the correct view .

[MrGongGong]

HS is entitled to his personal view as he properly puts it . The fact that fhgl likes works such as that PMD piece that he directed us to on YT ( albeit without warning us what it sounded like ) is equally a personal view as much as it is presented as the correct view .

Indeed he is
but it seems to be riddled with inaccuracies ?

[Richard Barrett]

HS is entitled to his personal view as he properly puts it .

Yes he is, but his command of the facts on this occasion, as has been pointed out, is sketchy to say the least.

I'm surprised that Goehr and Benjamin are numbered among the supposed hasbeens. Their work doesn't appeal to me in the least but neither of them has exactly sunk from view.

[Dave2002]

Yes he is, but his command of the facts on this occasion, as has been pointed out, is sketchy to say the least.

I'm surprised that Goehr and Benjamin are numbered among the supposed hasbeens. Their work doesn't appeal to me in the least but neither of them has exactly sunk from view.

Maybe only time will tell for all of these. Nicholas Maw doesn't seem to me to be doing well, Odyssey notwithstanding. I have heard it live. I don't have strong opinions about his work, but I feel it may only appeal to a minority, as also with the work of David and Colin Matthews.

I still have an LP of Alexander Goehr's Little Symphony. It doesn't get played much. Indeed, it seems to me that there isn't a "towering giant" of contemporary classical music, though maybe it's a style/fashion thing. In the 20th Century, even in the 2nd half, there were Stravinsky, Britten and Tippett, who seemed to have a high standing then.

Are we restricting our selections to British "talent"?

[Richard Barrett]

it seems to me that there isn't a "towering giant" of contemporary classical music

No, with any luck we're beyond the age of thinking of composers as "towering giants"! And of "classical" music too - I find it quite weird that this word is used for music that's being composed in the present, as if it really belongs in the past.

[salymap]

And did any of the above composers appear on the thread '8 composers you can't live without?

[Hornspieler]

My original post to which FHG replid:

Alexander "Sandy" Goehr was one of the founders of the "Manchester School", which included in its membership Birtwistle, Maxwell Davies, Susan Bradshaw, Cornelius Cardew, Richard Rodney Bennet among others who latched on to the idea that the music(sic) they were churning out would be acceptable to those whose ears were used to melody, harmony and logical progression in their musical appreciation.

This thread is about musical talents.
Only two - possibly three of those named above could be so described.

Only my personal view, of course, but I did spend a fortnight working with all of them with John Carewe's "New Music Ensemble" at the Dartington Summer School in 1957.

HS

No, it didn't.


No, it didn't

No it didn't.
Still, don't let a few pesky facts get in the way of a good rant, eh, HS.


... such as John Ogdon and Elgar Howarth.



As accurate as you have led us to expect, HS.


Carewe nothing to do with the New Music, Manchester group, either. Still, interesting that you took part in the World Premiere of Alma Redemptoris Mater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1yrN4WdZPE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EePEKZOMDLk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY6nJMeC9tk

... sad that it was as lost on you as Wagner's premieres were on Franz Strauss.

Which work(s) by Birtwistle did you play, by the way?

The people that I named were all there (As was John McCabe, Malcolm Williamson and, of course, William Glock)

I played the premiere of Alma Redemptoris Mater during that fortnight and again in the Wigmore Hall a few months later with the same players*.

I also played works by Luigo Nono and Elizabeth McConchy(?) at Dartington.

The conductor at those performances was John Carewe, and we were described simply as "The New Music Ensemble"
I remember Reiner Schulein (flute), Colin Bradbry (Clarinet), Leslie Walklin(bass clarinet), Alf Lündgren?(violin) and Margaret Cotton (percussion)

*Noel Somebody?(cello) played the bassoon part of the PMD on both of those two occasions

I happily withdraw Alison Balsom from my original list (in fact, I thought that I already had done so, having looked up her discography and career record).

HS