Robert Simpson as genial pedagogue

[Serial_Apologist]

interesting.
I suppose that is true of any teacher, S_A.

Not sure about that TS, to be honest.

[teamsaint]

Not sure about that TS, to be honest.

well a teacher surely always comes from some point of view or other? Teachers of Arts in particular try to demonstrate how things work or worked through the mechanism of a particular theory, ideology, world view or whatever , don't they?

the viewpoint can only ever be partial.

[Serial_Apologist]

well a teacher surely always comes from some point of view or other? Teachers of Arts in particular try to demonstrate how things work or worked through the mechanism of a particular theory, ideology, world view or whatever , don't they?

the viewpoint can only ever be partial.

I'm like you - I love all sorts of stuff that seems to me in its own way cutting edge, taking us forward from where it is, so that might be Monteverdi in 1605, Beethoven in 1822, Wagner in 1859, Mussorgsky in 1875, Debussy in 1897, Holst in 1909 England or Schoenberg in 1909 Vienna, Varese in 1922, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie in 1943, Stockhausen in 1954... I could go on. Anyone who "expands the permissible within the empire of sound" as Debussy is said to have said of Stravinskly's "Le Sacre" is taking us to exciting new places, not just dumbed down exploitational new or old places, so in that sense they parallel what politics and economics should be. I suppose that amounts to a world view of sorts, if not a particularly saleable one.

[teamsaint]

I'm like you - I love all sorts of stuff that seems to me in its own way cutting edge, taking us forward from where it is, so that might be Monteverdi in 1605, Beethoven in 1822, Wagner in 1859, Mussorgsky in 1875, Debussy in 1897, Holst in 1909 England or Schoenberg in 1909 Vienna, Varese in 1922, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie in 1943, Stockhausen in 1954... I could go on. Anyone who "expands the permissible within the empire of sound" as Debussy is said to have said of Stravinskly's "Le Sacre" is taking us to exciting new places, not just dumbed down exploitational new or old places, so in that sense they parallel what politics and economics should be. I suppose that amounts to a world view of sorts, if not a particularly saleable one.

Interesting thoughts,and list. I suppose that what is cutting edge or moving things on is dependent at least in part on historical/social/musical context.
Just for example, Captain Beefheart and Siouxsie and the Banshees were seen as those things, in their worlds when they produced "Trout Mask Replica" or "The Scream". I don't suppose there was much in that music that hadn't been done long before , in terms of musical techniques, but the certainly were effective in promoting a change of understanding about music in their audiences at the time.

But apologies, that's all rather OT, perhaps for another interesting thread.

[Karafan]

Do not miss this, Karafan ('tho the second-hand option is probably the one to go for!):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Symphonies-BBC-Music-Guides/dp/0563092718/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381693135&sr=1-2&keywords=robert+simpson%2C+beethoven

... it's essentially a 62 page essay illustrating Beethoven's technical biography as revealed in the Nine Symphonies. Utterly characteristic of the man's writing - astonishing insights, completely connected with the subject, talking to the reader (not down at him/her), gruffly and entertainingly opinionated. I bought mine in 1974 for 45p and I still return to it.

Thanks Ferney - duly snapped-up. Thanks to TS also for the link to the Nielsen.

K.

[teamsaint]

Picked up a copy of the Simpson Beethoven Symphonies BBC guide .

Really wonderful stuff. Thanks to those (Ferney and JLW) who recommended them.
Amazing amount of insight in so few pages.