Shostakovich 15

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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    #91
    With the possible exception of the 6th (Grief, Sanity, Insanity) most of Shostakovich's Symphonies have a clear character or trajectory. The 15th seems different in this respect, juxtaposing extreme contrasts without much transition or integration, despite many thematic cross-references. Those famous quotations seem to point to hidden meanings which we can't decode. But the composer himself said that he didn't know why they were there - they just HAD to be. Intuitive and suggestive, not representative. Leave them aside for a moment and from one perspective you could hear the piece as three scherzi - movements 1, 3 and the coda to 4, sounding rather like "ballets mecaniques"; and two slow or moderate movements, 2 and 4 (up to the end of the allegretto reprise).

    The sorrow and lament in the 2nd and 4th movements, often very raw and anguished, are an extreme of emotion, set against the almost total lack (or mockery of) human presence in the three ballets (though the strings in 3 hint at this presence, as they warm and extend the rhythm - The Artist smiling at the spectacle perhaps - only to be mocked by the winds).

    In the Largo, that touch of formal pomposity in the trombone's funeral oration underlines the horror (recalling for me the undertaker-executioners in Kafka's The Trial); but at its climax we pull back to that grander, cinemascope vision familiar from the 7th and 8th symphonies and it becomes more broadly compassionate, a requiem. In the finale, the sad lilt of the allegretto suggests the remote, withdrawn serenity of The Artist, seeming to approach some kind of reconciliation (with the self, with death) but this mood is unsettled and then swept aside by the invasive passacaglia which writhes into a last, agonised, funarary outburst - like the roar of a dying animal, perhaps the most nakedly primal of all DSCH's laments. (The structural role of this passacaglia is oddly similar to the variations, (the "Invasion" episode) in the 1st movement of the Leningrad).

    Yet - after this the allegretto soon regains its poise and winds down gently, lightly, even a little deftly, to its close. The Unbearable Lightness of Being, perhaps. Then the "mecaniques", the dancing machines, start up again.
    So to the coda: it hangs before us like a clockwork ghost, a rattling, whistling, clicking image of a void, of nothingness. Gone is the gleefully sinister playfulness of the 1st movement, or the coloristic and rhythmic warmth and invention of the 3rd.

    Human existence might be so unbearable, so full of the memory of and the presence of pain, of death, of suffering... in the ante-room of death you might feel less burdened. Nothingness might feel like a relief.

    So The Artist known as DSCH disappears behind his mysteriously referential, many-layered, final (yet parenthetical) symphonic creation.

    You could describe it as a symphony setting an essentially tragic view of humanity against that most useful and destructive of human inventions, the machine. Humanity and the absence of humanity.
    But really, I don't think there is any essential "hidden meaning" to be discovered. DSCH has placed these movements alongside each other for us to "Make Sense" of as we will (within the force-fields of their own images, references and allusions). It seems the most truly modernist of his works in its suggestive power and its open-ended, nonlinear structure.
    Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 29-09-13, 17:50.

    Comment

    • Richard Tarleton

      #92
      jayne, can I just echo teamsaint's comment here -
      The two DSCH threads are the sort of thing that make it worth hanging round here......inspiring to read the many educated and passionate viewpoints
      Thank you!

      Comment

      • edashtav
        Full Member
        • Jul 2012
        • 3670

        #93
        Thank you Jayne for your insightful exegesis. We differ over the Leningrad but not over # 15.

        Comment

        • teamsaint
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 25209

          #94
          the downside of these threads is that you have to keep going back to the works and relistening , with some new viewpoint fresh in your mind.

          OK, not really a downside.
          But bad if there is housework to be done.
          Job for tomorrow, revisit #15 with JLW's comments to hand.

          Work? well maybe.....later...
          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

          I am not a number, I am a free man.

          Comment

          • Il Grande Inquisitor
            Full Member
            • Mar 2007
            • 961

            #95
            Originally posted by Caliban View Post
            Scour the rows for some discarded ones as you make your way out after, perhaps?

            (Like you, I tend to avoid buying them... Been known to pick up one after!)
            If it's the LSO, then the programme will be free of charge!
            Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....

            Comment

            • Nick Armstrong
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 26533

              #96
              Originally posted by Il Grande Inquisitor View Post
              If it's the LSO, then the programme will be free of charge!
              There speaks the seasoned freeloader!!!

              I didn't realise that! The Mahler 6 concert the other night was the first time I've been there for a long while...
              "...the isle is full of noises,
              Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
              Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
              Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

              Comment

              • ahinton
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 16122

                #97
                I have written to and received responses from several noted Shostakovich authorities about the exxtent and detail of self-quotation in this symphony and have received some intriguing though inconclusive replies. Two of them pointed out that some of these might even be open to doubt (and Maxim himself has denied a Glinka quote therein) and the personal interpretation of the listener. None has stated that there's a known definitive list of quotations in this work. One, however, did point out that a new publication of its score is supposedly due shortly and will contain copius analytical notes, so it is perhaps possible that information on this might be accessible then.

                Comment

                • BBMmk2
                  Late Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 20908

                  #98
                  Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                  the downside of these threads is that you have to keep going back to the works and relistening , with some new viewpoint fresh in your mind.

                  OK, not really a downside.
                  But bad if there is housework to be done.
                  Job for tomorrow, revisit #15 with JLW's comments to hand.

                  Work? well maybe.....later...
                  Well, the downside of threads like these, is that you have to buy more CDs!! :)
                  Don’t cry for me
                  I go where music was born

                  J S Bach 1685-1750

                  Comment

                  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                    Gone fishin'
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 30163

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
                    Well, the downside of threads like these, is that you have to buy more CDs!! :)
                    Well, for a "downside", that's pretty "up"!
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                    Comment

                    • teamsaint
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 25209

                      Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                      Well, for a "downside", that's pretty "up"!
                      and talking of which , the APP that REALLY needs inventing is one for charity shop trawls, which gives an instant read out/star rating for CDs .
                      I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                      I am not a number, I am a free man.

                      Comment

                      • Maclintick
                        Full Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 1071

                        [QUOTE=jayne lee wilson;337526] this mood is unsettled and then swept aside by the invasive passacaglia which writhes into a last, agonised, funarary outburst - like the roar of a dying animal, perhaps the most nakedly primal of all DSCH's laments. QUOTE]

                        Great observations, JLW. The resurgence of the passacaglia in 20th-century composers' oeuvres is striking, perhaps a mostly-unacknowledged compliment to that proto-neo-baroquist Brahms, who resurrected the chaconne as existential battering-ram in the finale of his 4th Symphony. Webern & Berg were fascinated by the form, & DSCH returned to it compulsively, placing passacaglias at the heart of his greatest works, 8th & 15th Symphonies, 1st Violin Concerto, Op. 68 Piano Trio, 12th quartet, & conjuring a terrifyingly brassy chaccacophony (?) for the funeral of the Stalin-figure Boris Timofeyevich in Lady Macbeth - the latter surely influencing Britten to follow suit in Peter Grimes.

                        [QUOTE JLW: So The Artist known as DSCH disappears behind his mysteriously referential, many-layered, final (yet parenthetical) symphonic creation. QUOTE]

                        Listening to another final symphony Nielsen 6 today, with it's nursery-echoing celesta & ticking percussion, the influence on Shostakovich, & most resonantly, the 15th strikes one forcefully. Fragmentary, valedictory, & doggedly humanistic, both pointing the way to the post-modern nightmares of Schnittke etc.

                        With reference to another excellent thread, I'm now making a mental note to search out Bob Simpson's writings on these troubling pieces..

                        Comment

                        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                          Gone fishin'
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 30163

                          Originally posted by Maclintick View Post
                          DSCH returned to it compulsively, placing passacaglias at the heart of his greatest works, 8th & 15th Symphonies, 1st Violin Concerto, Op. 68 Piano Trio, 12th quartet, & conjuring a terrifyingly brassy chaccacophony (?) for the funeral of the Stalin-figure Boris Timofeyevich in Lady Macbeth - the latter surely influencing Britten to follow suit in Peter Grimes.


                          You might also include RVW's Fifth Symphony in your list of 20th Century uses of the Chaconne/Passacaglia proceedure - but there is more influence from Purcell in both RVW and Britten than perhaps from Brahms.

                          As for Robert Simpson and the Nielsen Sixth, he wrote two responses to this elusive work in his pioneering studyCarl Nielsen: Symphonist: in the first edition, he was somewhat negative, basing his reactions purely from the written score. The revised edition replaces this with a much more positive essay, which he wrote after having heard the work in concert. The latter is the more perceptive, but the first one is worth reading if only to see how a remarkable Musical mind responded to a piece he can't make head nor tail of by a composer he revered.
                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                          Comment

                          • ahinton
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 16122

                            Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                            As for Robert Simpson and the Nielsen Sixth, he wrote two responses to this elusive work in his pioneering studyCarl Nielsen: Symphonist: in the first edition, he was somewhat negative, basing his reactions purely from the written score. The revised edition replaces this with a much more positive essay, which he wrote after having heard the work in concert. The latter is the more perceptive, but the first one is worth reading if only to see how a remarkable Musical mind responded to a piece he can't make head nor tail of by a composer he revered.
                            Rather as the otherwise immense devotee of Mahler, Arnold Schönberg, confessed (somewhat astonishingly) in Style and Idea to an inability to grasp Mahler's Ninth Symphony...

                            Comment

                            • Maclintick
                              Full Member
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 1071

                              [QUOTE=ferneyhoughgeliebte;342172]
                              You might also include RVW's Fifth Symphony in your list of 20th Century uses of the Chaconne/Passacaglia proceedure - but there is more influence from Purcell in both RVW and Britten than perhaps from Brahms./QUOTE]

                              Good call on RVW 5, FHG. You're right to draw attention to Britten's engagement with Purcell & the madrigalists, which blossomed at the same time as Tippett's i.e. the late forties, but we also know that the 23-year-old composer attended a 1936 Macnaghten concert performance of Lady Macbeth, and that his chosen influences at the time were Mahler, Ravel, Berg, Stravinsky, & the modernists, among whom one DSCH.

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