On not judging Furtwangler

[verismissimo]

Thought-provoking piece about Furtwangler, Giulini and judgementalism:

http://drgeraldstein.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/a-man-who-refused-to-judge-carlo-maria-giulini/

[aeolium]

Thank you for that article, verismissimo. It was interesting to see the clip on Horenstein's opinion of Furtwängler. I do think it is extremely difficult for people now to be judgmental about people's behaviour under totalitarian regimes and perhaps the judgement should be left to those who suffered.

[amateur51]

Thought-provoking indeed verismissimo - many thanks for the book link and for the link to the interview with Jascha Horenstein who I thought put his opinions very well

[Tony Halstead]

Thought-provoking indeed verismissimo - many thanks for the book link and for the link to the interview with Jascha Horenstein who I thought put his opinions very well

Yes thanks indeed, verismissimo. The Horenstein video was fascinating and very moving.

[Pabmusic]

For those who don't know it, this is a must (a film of a stage play):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taking-Sides-DVD-Harvey-Keitel/dp/B0002K117O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378718624&sr=8-1&keywords=taking+sides

[aeolium]

For those who don't know it, this is a must (a film of a stage play):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taking-Sides...s=taking+sides

Yes, a very good film, Pabmusic. I remember seeing it in a cinema with 3 other people watching

The other interesting film, particularly for its live footage of WF and interviews with players from the period, is Das Reichsorchester.

[Pabmusic]

Yes, a very good film, Pabmusic. I remember seeing it in a cinema with 3 other people watching

The other interesting film, particularly for its live footage of WF and interviews with players from the period, is Das Reichsorchester.

Yes, it is. I have that one, too.

[amateur51]

For those who don't know it, this is a must (a film of a stage play):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taking-Sides...s=taking+sides

I saw the play when it was on in London (Daniel Massey as Furtwaengler) and I thought it was very interesting if not entirely satisfactory as a drama.

[Beef Oven!]

Thought-provoking piece about Furtwangler, Giulini and judgementalism:

http://drgeraldstein.wordpress.com/2...maria-giulini/

The moral perplexities of war, conscience and innocent soldiers. Do I load my rifle and use it, or do I do as my conscience tells me, knowing that my politically naive fellow soldier will get his brains blown out because he thinks I'm covering him as he moves as ordered?

Clearly Giulini's heart was in the right place.

P.S. very interesting link, many thanks

[gurnemanz]

I saw the play when it was on in London (Daniel Massey as Furtwaengler) and I thought it was very interesting if not entirely satisfactory as a drama.

We saw the same production in Bath Theatre Royal as a Saturday matinee and went afterwards to to Bath Compact Discs where I bought his famous Lucerne Beethoven Ninth.

I have understanding for Furtwängler who, as Horenstein says in the clip, was not a Nazi, naive certainly. My dear now deceased mother-in-law who told us how enthusiastic, like so many young German women in the 30s, she had been as a member of the Bund Deutscher Mädel (Hitler Youth for girls) and how shattered her father, a free-thinking artist, had been at her espousal of the regime. She was certainly not a Nazi, just taken in by them. Living in Leipzig, after the war she was required to pay lip service to the Communists who took over.

That article revealed a lot that was new to me about Giulini.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That article revealed a lot that was new to me about Giulini.

[salymap]

Ifyou haven't read it THE BATON AND THE JACKBOOT by his Secretary/Manager Bertha Geissmar is still a good read.

Apologies if it'sbeen mentioned here.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ifyou haven't read it THE BATON AND THE JACKBOOT by his Secretary/Manager Bertha Geissmar is still a good read.

Apologies if it'sbeen mentioned here.

No apology needed : it's an excellent book from both Musical and Historical viewpoints - and there's always someone reading who won't know about it.

[richardfinegold]

This is a most interesting thread. I had no idea what Giulini did during the war except for some vague acknowledgement that he participated in a desultory fashion. It is interesting that he would become angry at the questioning of Furtwangler's character. Any Musician that hailed from an Axis Country would be sensitive about the issue after the war.
I was particularly fascinated by the Horenstein link. I have many JH recordings but my knowledge of his life is sketchy. I will have to search you tube for more Horenstein related fare.

[PJPJ]

Misha Horenstein, Jascha's nephew, has done a great deal to build up an archive of JH's life and work, and has an extensive Facebook page devoted to him. Well worth investigating.

By the way, and OT, Misha tells me the master for the Unicorn Mahler 3 currently cannot be found, so if anyone knows where it is, please let him or me know.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jascha-Horenstein/34861114574?fref=ts