Men make Better Conductors

[ahinton]

As a reader, ah, I find it quite confusing when you , as you frequently do, ( though please do not ask me to detail each occasion that you have done so) take it upon yourself to answer on behalf of the person to whom a remark has been addressed.

I am uncertain whether I can help you with your confusion here but I will at least try.

I'm certainly not asking you to detail anything but, if you refer here to my post #27 in this thread on this occasion, I merely asked Beef Oven! what he thought was "beneath" Pabmusic; if you're referring to something else, plase let me know what.

Firstly, it was not addressed to you

What wasn't?

secondly, the remark was put directly to the specific contributor

...but published here for all to see...

thirdly, you have corrupted, as it were, the specific contributor's potential response, if any had been contemplated, by adding questions of your own which indicated the direction of your potential response, thereby muddying the waters for readers like myself who had been anticipating a quite different discussion

Now you're confusing me!

fourthly, Pab doesn't need any help.

Have I suggested that he does?

[ahinton]

A, why is it that when I read one of your posts, I hear it in my head in Dalek?

I have no more idea about that than I have any influence over how you hear anything that you read!

[ahinton]

You should have known - it's all in the links already posted on this thread.

Apologies; I should have been clearer and written instead that I didn't know about it when I first read the item.

[Ferretfancy]

Of course, Nigel Kennedy thinks that the gender question is irrelevant because all conductors 'just wave their arms out of time' - see this cringeworthy interview. I'm rather hoping that Marin Alsop demonstrates the power of the conductor on Saturday by sabotaging Nige's solos. http://www.theguardian.com/music/201...tors-overrated

According to the new Private Eye, the Beeb were concerned about Nige's remarks about Israel when he conducted the Palestinian musicians at his late night Prom, and there is a very real possibility that he may be withdrawn from the Last Night.

I do wish he would show us what a fine musician he can be. I will never forget his platform antics at the RFH a few years back when he played the Alban Berg, coming onto the platform in a long black cloak, white make up, black lipstick and purple moon boots. There was a fair sized group of young Nigel groupies behind the orchestra who were visibly baffled by the music, preceded as it was by Schoenberg's Erwartung!

The performance was superb.

[Ferretfancy]

Re distraction -there was a nice looking young second violinist ( male ) in the Orchestre de Paris the other night, did it spoil my concentration? Well, only a little.

[teamsaint]

I honestly thought that all these gender and orientation matters had been sorted out years ago.


And I live in Wiltshire.

"strange days indeed....most peculiar......"

[Beef Oven!]

Re distraction -there was a nice looking young second violinist ( male ) in the Orchestre de Paris the other night, did it spoil my concentration? Well, only a little.

You are lucky it wasn't a violist, there is legislation concerning vulnerable adults

[Serial_Apologist]

I honestly thought that all these gender and orientation matters had been sorted out years ago.

And I live in Wiltshire.

[french frank]

Is this one more indication of Russian sexual attitudes, or is it just one Russian's view?

VP said that this was about the position in Russia:

" What I said was meant to be a description of the situation in Russia, my homeland. This situation is worsening with some new initiatives of the government. I deeply respect that many musicians, for example the famous violinist Gidon Kremer, feels the same way about the situation there. Taken out of context I understand that what I said can very easily be perceived in the wrong way.
- I have the outmost respect for female conductors, for instance the extraordinary talented conductor Marin Alsop and the famous Veronika Dudarova. I’d encourage any girl to study conducting. How successful they turn out to be depends on their talent and their work, definitely not their gender. I also want to add that my beloved wife is a choral conductor."

[Padraig]

I am uncertain whether I can help you with your confusion here but I will at least try.

I'm certainly not asking you to detail anything but, if you refer here to my post #27 in this thread on this occasion, I merely asked Beef Oven! what he thought was "beneath" Pabmusic; if you're referring to something else, plase let me know what.


What wasn't?


...but published here for all to see...


Now you're confusing me!


Have I suggested that he does?

Thank you ah. Your understanding of others' points of view is amazing.

[ahinton]

Thank you ah. Your understanding of others' points of view is amazing.

I humbly suggest that, in general terms, my "understanding of others' points of view" may well be largely unknown to you rather than "amazing", but that's a matter for you rather than for me; in the meantime, I merely note that you omitted to clarify what your issue was in response to my request that you do so (not that you were under any obligation to do that, of course) and, as a consequence, I admit to still not understanding your particular point here as I am not clear what it was or what prompted it.

Let's get back to the topic!

[french frank]

Let's get back to the topic!

I'm not sure that there's anything further to say. Petrenko stated that he was referring to the situation as it is in Russia, not his own view. If you follow up the story, you see that several colleagues say they have never heard him make such comments as his words have been taken to imply (i.e. that men make better conductors than women). So the only way to proceed with the topic seems to be to express disbelief in his explanation on the grounds that a) you don't believe it or b) you did in fact heard him uttering exactly those comments in the pub last Thursday and it's just like him.

Otherwise, as has been stated elsewhere by one with whom I don't normally agree: a storm in a teacup.

Which appeared to be what pabmusic was querying (without, I take it, having read VP's explanation) when he asked whether it was a Russian view or one man's view.

[Sir Velo]

Simon Jenkins stirring the pot.

[ahinton]

I'm not sure that there's anything further to say. Petrenko stated that he was referring to the situation as it is in Russia, not his own view. If you follow up the story, you see that several colleagues say they have never heard him make such comments as his words have been taken to imply (i.e. that men make better conductors than women). So the only way to proceed with the topic seems to be to express disbelief in his explanation on the grounds that a) you don't believe it or b) you did in fact heard him uttering exactly those comments in the pub last Thursday and it's just like him.

Otherwise, as has been stated elsewhere by one with whom I don't normally agree: a storm in a teacup.

Which appeared to be what pabmusic was querying (without, I take it, having read VP's explanation) when he asked whether it was a Russian view or one man's view.

Indeed. By "let's get back to the topic!" I sought to imply "if there's anything further to discuss" and perhaps ought to have added that caveat. For all that there's many a slip between teacup and lip, this one does indeed appear more or less to have run its course.

[jean]

Simon Jenkins stirring the pot.

I think that's a rather good and measured article - and it even brings in our favourite topic gay marriage by way of Julie Bindel's change of heart on that subject.

I wish I could defend Petrenko more easily, but you can't really pretend that the cute-girl-on-a-podium bit was meant to apply only to Russia, nor that it was extracted by eagle-eyed British journalists from an interview he gave in Norway that was really about something else.

Here is the original interview (not very well translated, but if you can manage the Norwegian you can get it by clicking the button on the right) and here's a comment from the same source:

Sexbomb

- Oh my God, there he Petrenko might well get direct me a couple of hours, I heard a lady whisper to her friend in the break. And she was not the only woman in the audience who was firing. Not a seat was dry to speak. I understand them well. By all means. You look like a supermodel, Vasily. But you have more than the look of you. Actually, you have everything anyone could desire in a man. You are obviously sensitive. Of course you are. You're a conductor in the world. You make us cry and laugh. Playing on the emotional aspect. And then you are obviously confident in yourself. You reek of determination and tenacity. And energy. And kindness. Humor, even. I laughed at least when you turned up and hushed the crowd with a cheeky smile and a twinkle in his eye. Basically a bit like gay gesture. Think you got with you people on both teams there is. Tricked moves. Oh, I forgot power. It's sexy. I am deeply envious. Vasily Petrenko, you're hotter than the sun.

Difficulty concentrating

I firmly believe that I saw a special glow in the eyes of the female musicians in the orchestra when they looked at you. Some of the male as well. Wonder if they managed to concentrate. It seemed the really like that? I heard at least no major lapses. On the contrary, I thought it sounded amazing. But it must have been difficult. I mean, when the audience knows that it tickles in my stomach just by watching you from behind, or, in other words, from behind is not just only in this case, that's not what I mean, but it can not be easy for a poor orchestra musician concentrate when Vasily Petrenko sexual energy washes over the orchestra.

I hope it does not go beyond the musical, Vasily. I really doubt it. I never thought of that attractive conductors achieve poorer results than repulsive colleagues. It was you who made me aware. Matter. You are one tough times ahead, I realize. Good luck, then.