Meaning of Vocalist?

[jean]

But then - to go back to the Prom where this discussion started - why was the soprano determinedly a soprano, while the other singers were vocalists?

Who was the object of that bit of marketing?

(I didn't even hear the concert on the radio, so I have no idea how they all sounded!)

[johnn10]

But then - to go back to the Prom where this discussion started - why was the soprano determinedly a soprano, while the other singers were vocalists?

Who was the object of that bit of marketing?

(I didn't even hear the concert on the radio, so I have no idea how they all sounded!)

From where I was located the trouble was that the singers sang into their microphones and not into the hall. So all I heard was amplified singing. They might as well have played some extracts from David Jacobs programmes-at least the words might have been clearer.

[jean]

From where I was located the trouble was that the singers sang into their microphones and not into the hall...

What - even the soi-disant soprano?

[french frank]

What - even the soi-disant soprano?

I think if you listen to a jazz, blues or soul singer (or even the modern female pop singer), you wouldn't call them a soprano, mezzo, contralto or whatever. It's as much a style of singer, I'd say. Many women who specialise in singing in music theatre have a voice that is light and high, natural or trained - Sarah Brightman, for example, or Julie Andrews. Or whoever sang the part of Anna in the King and I film. I don't think it's inappropriate to call them 'sopranos'. Ethel Merman, for another example, would not come under the description of, say, a contralto ...

[johnn10]

No, I was just thinking of the two soloists in the medley.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

What I want to know is why one would choose one term rather than the other - and for that I need to know what the distinction is.

Some performers have an astonishing vocal range that encompasses more than the traditional S/M-S/A etc ranges: think of Kate Bush, for example, or Bjork, or Ute Lemper. Others aren't really "singers" at all in the traditional senses that adherents of "Classical" Music would understand - Rex Harrison, Lee Marvin, William Shatner, rappers, even Groucho Marx. And then, there are the phenomenal skills of Ute Wassermann:

http://femmes-savantes.net/en/les-fe...ute-wassermann

[french frank]

Not sure that link is working fhg: http://femmes-savantes.net/en/les-fe...ute-wassermann

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks, frenchie.

As I understand it, a "vocalist" does other things with his/her voice beyond what is widely regarded as "singing". The mouth, vocal chords and oral cavity are exploited as required to speak, hum, screech, croon, salivate, moan, hiss, recite, sprechstimme and sprechgesang, overtone production, gasp, shout, warble, gargle, falsetto, clear the throat, fluttertongue, yodel, blow raspberries, ventriloquize, imitate beat boxes, whistle, ... as well as sing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dNLAhL46xM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crxtt5yMQdM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9KuKBLaVYA

[Padraig]

Not sure that link is working fhg: http://femmes-savantes.net/en/les-fe...ute-wassermann

Worked for me, ff.

In view of the number of song recitals, both in Edinburg and Lunchtime Concerts currently, there is an interesting recital contained in that link to compare. I think the concept of a recital with soprano and piano undergoes a transformation.

[french frank]

Thanks, frenchie.

As I understand it, a "vocalist" does other things with his/her voice beyond what is widely regarded as "singing". The mouth, vocal chords and oral cavity are exploited as required to speak, hum, screech, croon, salivate, moan, hiss, recite, sprechstimme and sprechgesang, overtone production, gasp, shout, warble, gargle, falsetto, clear the throat, fluttertongue, yodel, blow raspberries, ventriloquize, imitate beat boxes, whistle, ... as well as sing.

Sounds like an interesting Prom!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sounds like an interesting Prom!

- reading the description again, it also sounds like Alain Maréchal's description of Brighton on a Staurday evening.

[Padraig]

...... Ethel Merman, for another example, would not come under the description of, say, a contralto ...

Perhaps not in the same sense as Kathleen Ferrier, say, but if you wanted to you could categorise her voice like any other singer's. I certainly think that the inspirational Nina Simone could be categorised as a contralto in this song, though she does much more than that with her voice. Anyway, since it is the anniversary of Martin Luther King's Dream speech - 50th! - I hope you can enjoy this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dlrXCYrNYI

[Alain Maréchal]

- reading the description again, it also sounds like Alain Maréchal's description of Brighton on a Staurday evening.

Indeed I might describe Brighton by means of hum, screech, croon, salivate, moan, hiss, recite, sprechstimme and sprechgesang, overtone production, gasp, shout, warble, gargle, falsetto, clear the throat, fluttertongue, yodel, blow raspberries, ventriloquize, imitate beat boxes, whistle, ... but I wouldn't sing!

[french frank]

but if you wanted to you could categorise her voice like any other singer's. I certainly think that the inspirational Nina Simone could be categorised as a contralto in this song

I'm perfectly content to be disagreed with in saying that in its current usage it implies more than range in pitch but also a particular quality (I stress 'particular' so that it should not be thought I mean that one style has 'quality' and the other has not). My view is not borne out by entries in any of the Oxford music guides or Grove. And certainly not the OED which, however, the entry appears not to have been fully updated since it was first published in 1893.

But to designate Nina Simone a contralto (rather than, say, a singer or vocalist) doesn't seem to explain for Jean why one singer might be called, say, a soprano and another a vocalist.

[Padraig]

I'm perfectly content to be disagreed with in saying that in its current usage it implies more than range in pitch but also a particular quality (I stress 'particular' so that it should not be thought I mean that one style has 'quality' and the other has not). My view is not borne out by entries in any of the Oxford music guides or Grove. And certainly not the OED which, however, the entry appears not to have been fully updated since it was first published in 1893.

But to designate Nina Simone a contralto (rather than, say, a singer or vocalist) doesn't seem to explain for Jean why one singer might be called, say, a soprano and another a vocalist.

ff, I think you are revisiting a very old difference of opinion between you and me. For Jean's sake, I do not categorise Nina Simone as a contralto - she is a vocalist - Kathleen Ferrier is a contralto. However, they are both singers, and should Nina Simone ever have wanted to train for the opera I reckon her teacher would have tended to concentrate on her lower register. Where we probably differ most is that I regard Nina Simone as just as good as Kathleen Ferrier in their chosen genres, and I do not consider contraltos, say, as superior or inferior to vocalists per se. It's the performance that counts.