A different music

[french frank]

I thought this probably as appropriate a forum as the world music board, being of wider musical interest:

"The West displays to the Vietnamese young people its flawless instruments, its accurate notation, its varied repertoire, its orchestration, and its disciplined orchestras," says Vinh Bao."That is why it has been so difficult to keep the Nhac Tai Tu Nam Bo form alive," he says, clearly frustrated.

"It is hard to get them interested in old-fashioned instruments," he tells me, sweeping a hand towards the collection that adorns the walls of the small room.

Article on traditional Vietnamese "chamber music".

Meanwhile, in the West ...

[amateur51]

"You have to forget about absolute pitch"

I'm warming to it already - interesting article and sound clip.

[Richard Barrett]

"I hear an almost random cascade of sound. There is little rhythm and many of the notes sound - to my ear at least - distinctly out of tune. [...] what he calls "ornamentation" [...] This time I think I discern a purpose among what had seemed a jumble of random sounds." Wouldn't it have been nice if the article had been written by someone with the slightest knowledge of music? Seems to me like yet another example of a trend (especially in writing about music but not confined to this) of getting journalists to cover subjects they're ignorant of, as if this is somehow "inclusive". How can anyone learn anything useful from this?

[french frank]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the article had been written by someone with the slightest knowledge of music? Seems to me like yet another example of a trend (especially in writing about music but not confined to this) of getting journalists to cover subjects they're ignorant of, as if this is somehow "inclusive". How can anyone learn anything useful from this?

In this case the programme in question was From Our Foreign Correspondent on the World Service and Radio 4, so, even in the written form of the BBC online 'magazine' it probably did allow people to 'learn something'.

But, on the other hand - more importantly - where is this kind of subject ever tackled on Radio 3, the BBC's 'home' of world music? I remember a 'World Music Day' about ten years ago having a short feature on Arabic music described by a specialist.

[Richard Barrett]

In this case the programme in question was From Our Foreign Correspondent on the World Service and Radio 4, so, even in the written form of the BBC online 'magazine' it probably did allow people to 'learn something'.

But, on the other hand - more importantly - where is this kind of subject ever tackled on Radio 3, the BBC's 'home' of world music? I remember a 'World Music Day' about ten years ago having a short feature on Arabic music described by a specialist.

I agree with you about Radio 3 for sure. But describing a non-Western traditional music as a "jumble of random sounds" is the kind of thing you'd expect from Godfrey Bloom, isn't it?

[french frank]

I agree with you about Radio 3 for sure. But describing a non-Western traditional music as a "jumble of random sounds" is the kind of thing you'd expect from Godfrey Bloom, isn't it?

I suspect it's the kind of cluelessness that you get from journalists on any specialist subject that they cover, regardless of its 'bongo bongo land' associations in this case.

It reminds me more of someone who said, "Whenever I read a newspaper article about something I know about, I realise the journalist hasn't the faintest idea about the subject." Hear, hear.

The 'fit for purpose' argument also applies, and it would have required a different programme and audience to have treated the subject knowledgeably. It also reminds me of the BBC's research on attitudes to Radio 3: listeners who had no knowledge of the station (nor an interest in classical music) listened to Discovering Music (then a 90-minute programme). Result: "It was quite interesting but it was above my head and I wouldn't listen to it very much." Try this feature on Vietnamese music, then.

Who decided that the journalist should write about the music, and why, I couldn't begin to guess.

[doversoul1]

I am almost sure that if the author of this article had gone to see an early music specialist anywhere in the West, he’d have seen plenty of strange musical instruments and heard much the same thing about scale and pitch etc.. So what’s the point of the article? Disappearing traditions or West vs. East?

Listen to World Music by all means but isn’t it time we/they forgot the same old idea about mystical, wise Orient?

[Richard Barrett]

what’s the point of the article? Disappearing traditions or West vs. East?

It might have been a lot more enlightening if things like that had been the point of the article - there's massive pressure on traditional musicians all over the world to adopt more "Western" features in their music so as to make it more palatable in the "international market", the alternative being that their music is regarded as a "jumble of random sounds" and they stay poor while their less single-minded colleagues fly off on tour. I'm not talking about some rose-tinted image of a "mystical, wise Orient" but about a cultural diversity which is being diluted out of existence, as most folk music traditions in the West are already have been. So many of the instruments, forms and other features of "Western classical music" (and indeed popular music) have been influenced and reinvigorated by contact with other cultures; I wonder how that will work when there aren't any other distinctive musical cultures to draw on...

[french frank]

I go to the gym five mornings a week. For an hour I hear dance music from the radio stations: the latest are Icona Pop, Daft Punk, David Guetta, Blink-182 - the same things being repeated over and over again (talk about "maggots"!). I don't know how much actual music was heard on this BBC programme, but anything that gets different musical sound worlds into people's consciousness - no matter the extent of the awareness or intellect with which they process them - is surely a good thing?

[Richard Barrett]

anything that gets different musical sound worlds into people's consciousness - no matter the extent of the awareness or intellect with which they process them - is surely a good thing?

Well yes - the music is the important thing of course.

[french frank]

As to 'the point of the article' - it doesn't have a musical purpose: we pay Our Man in Vietnam to come up with a feature now and again for our regular radio strand.

[Richard Barrett]

As to 'the point of the article' - it doesn't have a musical purpose: we pay Our Man in Vietnam to come up with a feature now and again for our regular radio strand.

What was the BBC motto again?

[french frank]

What was the BBC motto again?

Entertainment, entertainment, entertainment.

[amateur51]

As to 'the point of the article' - it doesn't have a musical purpose: we pay Our Man in Vietnam to come up with a feature now and again for our regular radio strand.

From Our Own Correspondent used to be a fascinating programme in which very well-informed correspondents would offer insights into the geo-politico-social area that they were living in. Now it's a quirky programme about foreigners (a tad harsh, perhaps).

Who was the Welsh man with a Scots name who used to front it when FOOC was top-notch broadcasting?

[Serial_Apologist]

So many of the instruments, forms and other features of "Western classical music" (and indeed popular music) have been influenced and reinvigorated by contact with other cultures; I wonder how that will work when there aren't any other distinctive musical cultures to draw on...

Absolutely right - well put, Richard!