Wagner and Tolkien

[BBMmk2]

I have been thinking about these two great luminaries for a while now and have noticed what similarities there are with the two tales that have been written. One obvious connection is a ring an all powerful ring that could wreak havoc tgo a country, others are the heroes, like Siegfried and Frodo. Completely different, one was born to be a hero, the other more reluctant but took to it with great zeal, almost enveloping his life to the limits.

The other, Wagner and Tolkien. I should think that they would have known about each others' works, most likely but would they have probably copied from each other been influenced, maybe? Ideas?

[french frank]

The other, Wagner and Tolkien. I should think that they would have known about each others' works, most likely but would they have probably copied from each other been influenced, maybe? Ideas?

Tolkien, as a professor of English, knew about and was influenced by old Germanic/Norse legends. Wagner knew the same legends.

[BBMmk2]

Ah ofcourse, but what a different journey both Wagner and Tolkien took, with these legends!

[MrGongGong]

There are girls in Wagner

[Mary Chambers]

There are girls in Wagner

I have observed before that Wagner is much the same as Tolkien, but with sex. Both go on and on and on.

Possibly my view of Tolkien is slightly soured by the fact that my English teacher at school (English mistress, as we said then) had been taught by Tolkien at some stage, and she went on and on about him. We were made to read The Lord of the Rings long before it was popularised - in fact not long after it was published. I didn't really like it, but we were good girls who did as we were told. On the quiet we wrote sarcastic verse about it.

She was a brilliant teacher, though - just a bit obsessive on this subject. Not sure that she mentioned Wagner.

[David-G]

There was a talk on this very subject in one of the intervals of Siegfried yesterday. It was very interesting and informative. Well worth catching.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0375szx

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There are girls in Wagner

...and in Tolkien too, but no sex.

Alberich and Gollum make an interesting pair for comparison.

[Bryn]

No sex? So how did Samwise and Rose manage to end up with 13 children?

[pastoralguy]

There was a talk on this very subject in one of the intervals of Siegfried yesterday. It was very interesting and informative. Well worth catching.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0375szx

Interesting programme. Thank you for the link.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The other, Wagner and Tolkien. I should think that they would have known about each others' works, most likely but would they have probably copied from each other been influenced, maybe? Ideas?

Well, as Tolkien was born ten years after Wagner died ...

I have observed before that Wagner is much the same as Tolkien, but with sex

Should've gone to specsavers!

[KipperKid]

Well, as Tolkien was born ten years after Wagner died ...

But Wagner was a visionary.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But Wagner was a visionary.

- ahead of his time, quite so!

[jayne lee wilson]

I have observed before that Wagner is much the same as Tolkien, but with sex. Both go on and on and on.

Possibly my view of Tolkien is slightly soured by the fact that my English teacher at school (English mistress, as we said then) had been taught by Tolkien at some stage, and she went on and on about him. We were made to read The Lord of the Rings long before it was popularised - in fact not long after it was published. I didn't really like it, but we were good girls who did as we were told. On the quiet we wrote sarcastic verse about it.

She was a brilliant teacher, though - just a bit obsessive on this subject. Not sure that she mentioned Wagner.

You may have noticed Wagner's music. Makes just a tiny little difference.

As for Tolkien - well, The Lord of the Rings - he, and it, didn't really exist until Peter Jackson re-invented him. Before that cinematic masterpiece, Tolkien was the province of those who lived among it, or could boast how quickly they had GOT THROUGH IT ... (I was never among them. Mum considered it, but wisely chose Proust instead).

[Pabmusic]

...As for Tolkien - well, The Lord of the Rings - he, and it, didn't really exist until Peter Jackson re-invented him. Before that cinematic masterpiece, Tolkien was the province of those who lived among it, or could boast how quickly they had GOT THROUGH IT ... (I was never among them. Mum considered it, but wisely chose Proust instead).

You were obviously not at university in the 1960s and 1970s. I had a "Tolkien is hobbit-forming" badge.

On a more serious note, your final paragraph is a bit condescending, and it's most certainly not true (although I cannot vouch for your mum's tastes, of course).

[Pabmusic]

I have been thinking about these two great luminaries for a while now and have noticed what similarities there are with the two tales that have been written. One obvious connection is a ring an all powerful ring that could wreak havoc tgo a country, others are the heroes, like Siegfried and Frodo. Completely different, one was born to be a hero, the other more reluctant but took to it with great zeal, almost enveloping his life to the limits.

The other, Wagner and Tolkien. I should think that they would have known about each others' works, most likely but would they have probably copied from each other been influenced, maybe? Ideas?

Wagner constructed his story largely from the High German Niebelungenlied, which has close parallels with the Norse Volsungasaga, which was one of several early texts that influenced Tolkien.

Tolkien did not appreciate Wagner's treatment of the sagas - "He delighted his friends with recitations from Beowulf, the Pearl, and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and recounted horrific episodes from the Norse Volsungasaga, with a passing jibe at Wagner whose interpretation of the myths he held in contempt". Or "The comparison of his Ring with the Nibelungenlied and Wagner always annoyed him; he once said 'Both rings were round and there the resemblance ceased" (both quotes from Christopher Tolkien).