How do you convert a Mozart sceptic?

[EdgeleyRob]

sadly predictable, ER, I am afraid.

Back home, need to get stuck into some new music.......

Hope you had a good holiday ts,soon be my turn.

[teamsaint]

Hope you had a good holiday ts,soon be my turn.

hey, ER, How did you know I had been to the beach ? and where d'you get the piccies ?!
very nice break ta, and a couple of days off for some Folk Music at Wickham next weekend, so all good.
You off somewhere nice ER?

[EdgeleyRob]

hey, ER, How did you know I had been to the beach ? and where d'you get the piccies ?!
very nice break ta, and a couple of days off for some Folk Music at Wickham next weekend, so all good.
You off somewhere nice ER?

Alanya in Southern Turkey,for 2 whole weeks from the 10th of August (yaaahoo).
Google beach smileys,loads of 'em on t'internet.

[KipperKid]

Alanya in Southern Turkey,for 2 whole weeks from the 10th of August (yaaahoo).
Google beach smileys,loads of 'em on t'internet.

Mid-August is the hottest time in that region and quite humid. Factor 50 sun cream and spend the hottest part of the day (11.00 - 16.00) imbibing plenty of fluids. I recommend Efes Pilsner (a new 100% Malt brew available this year) or Raki.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

His view, and I've heard it from other people too, is that Mozart is just too darn polite and/or formulaic/obvious.

Mozart's "problem" is that he makes everything sound so "easy" that there are, indeed, many people who are deceived into thinking that his Music is "too obvious". The subtleties of his Music are astonishing: give one hundred Music Students one hundred minutes to harmonize the opening four bars of K488, and I wonder if any of them would come up with what Mozart does in the very second chord (unless they know the work, of course) - it's so simple, but so astonishing that Schumann nicked the gesture for the opening of his Piano Quintet (but made it louder, so that everyone would get the point). Stop the "Jupiter" Symphony after bar 76 and ask anybody who has never heard it before what happens next; again (with no evidence - someone really should do research on this sort of thing) I doubt that anyone could predict what Mozart does in the next 12 bars, let alone that the simple but unprecedented chord progression in bars 81 - 88 returns in the Finale. Or his superb use of "dovetail" phrasing, where phrase ends and beginnings overlap to magical effect - the opening of the Larghetto of the Clarinet Quintet (C F A F F E D, the last note ending the first phrase and starting the second; D G B G F E etc: the rising sequence of the pitches totally masked by the completely different rhythmic values given to the pitches). No wonder Schönberg regarded Mozart as second only to Bach (more, even, than Beethoven) in his list of composers with greatest influence on his own work.

Mozart is the Fred Astaire of composers; he makes everything seem so easy that it's only when you try to copy him that you end up flat on your backside having made a complete ass of yourself in front of everyone. The reason why Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Schenker, Schönberg, Stravinsky, Messiaen, Stockhausen, Babbitt, Rosen, Bernstein, me and countless others revere his work is nothing to do with any merchandizing "hype" - it's because they've found, time after time after time, that the Music is even better than the hype.

[EdgeleyRob]

Mid-August is the hottest time in that region and quite humid. Factor 50 sun cream and spend the hottest part of the day (11.00 - 16.00) imbibing plenty of fluids. I recommend Efes Pilsner (a new 100% Malt brew available this year) or Raki.

'ave it !!! and welcome KK.
BTW have you bumped into BeefO yet ?
He's a member here and is in your part of the world,he'll be the one listening to Richard Arnell Symphonies.

[eighthobstruction]

Mozart's "problem" is that he makes everything sound so "easy" that there are, indeed, many people who are deceived into thinking that his Music is "too obvious". The sub leties of his Music are astonishing: give one hundred Music Students one hundred minutes to harmonize the opening four bars of K488, and I wonder if any of them would come up with what Mozart does in the very second chord (unless they know the work, of course) - it's so simple, but so astonishing that Schumann nicked the gesture for the opening of his Piano Quintet (but made it louder, so that everyone would get the point). Stop the "Jupiter" Symphony after bar 76 and ask anybody who has never heard it before what happens next; again (with no evidence - someone really should do research on this sort of thing) I doubt that anyone could predict what Mozart does in the next 12 bars, let alone that the simple but unprecedented chord progression in bars 81 - 88 returns in the Finale. Or his superb use of "dovetail" phrasing, where phrase ends and beginnings overlap to magical effect - the opening of the Larghetto of the Clarinet Quintet (C F A F F E D, the last note ending the first phrase and starting the second; D G B G F E etc: the rising sequence of the pitches totally masked by the completely different rhythmic values given to the pitches). No wonder Schönberg regarded Mozart as second only to Bach (more, even, than Beethoven) in his list of composers with greatest influence on his own work.

Mozart is the Fred Astaire of composers; he makes everything seem so easy that it's only when you try to copy him that you end up flat on your backside having made a complete ass of yourself in front of everyone. The reason why Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Schenker, Schönberg, Stravinsky, Messiaen, Stockhausen, Babbitt, Rosen, Bernstein, me and countless others revere his work is nothing to do with any merchandizing "hype" - it's because they've found, time after time after time, that the Music is even better than the hype.

....yep, how easily some forget....

[amateur51]

'ave it !!! and welcome KK.
BTW have you bumped into BeefO yet ?
He's a member here and is in your part of the world,he'll be the one listening to Richard Arnell Symphonies.

[Simon]

Thank you for clarifying that, Jean. That had not been clear to me, and I was very puzzled.

Me too. I thought you were referring to the more immediately preceding post.

As regards the one you actually meant, it really wasn't intended to stir, though it was certainly intended to criticize. I've been away a while and was genuinely disappointed to read, on the first day, that somebody was thinking of leaving due to his treatment here. I do tend to write exactly what I feel, you know!

Now that this is clear, maybe best to let it pass....

[mercia]

you do realise that KK is BO ?

[Simon]

#155 what an excellent post, FHG, IIMSS. One to copy and retain, indeed. And so many more examples that you could have provided... K491 (esp. last movt.), would come to my mind immediately.

Thank you.

[EdgeleyRob]

you do realise that KK is BO ?

Yes,should have added a sarcastic smiley.

[french frank]

Mozart's "problem" is that he makes everything sound so "easy" that there are, indeed, many people who are deceived into thinking that his Music is "too obvious".

An anecdote is told in the Deutsch biography of a student of Mozart's grumbling that everything was easy for him (Mozart): other people had to work very hard. Mozart's reply was that he had had to work very hard to make it sound 'easy'.

[KipperKid]

'ave it !!! and welcome KK.
BTW have you bumped into BeefO yet ?
He's a member here and is in your part of the world,he'll be the one listening to Richard Arnell Symphonies.

Make sure you get that Efes Malt freezing cold!

P.S. I haven't played any of Tony Arnell's music in a while, thanks for the reminder

[cloughie]

KK=Beefy?