How do you convert a Mozart sceptic?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You did a great job not so long ago ferney with a thread that started with Schoenberg & Webern, tarried with Babbitt, taking in Feldman on the way. I learned a lot from it

Thanks for that, ami - S_A did a great job bringing a "lost" generation of French composers to wider attention; I learnt a lot from that - composers whose names I'd encountered in books about Messiaen, but which I hadn't followed up. "Nudging" is good: to paraphrase Cage, I don't mind being moved, but I resent being shoved.

[BBMmk2]

Thanks for that, ami - S_A did a great job bringing a "lost" generation of French composers to wider attention; I learnt a lot from that - composers whose names I'd encountered in books about Messiaen, but which I hadn't followed up. "Nudging" is good: to paraphrase Cage, I don't mind being moved, but I resent being shoved.

Or depending on 4'30"!?!?!?

[anamnesis]

Or depending on 4'30"!?!?!?

The short version? :-)

[cloughie]

The short version? :-)

The ending was so quiet he thought it had finished!

[MrGongGong]

Listeners find out more about music because they like the sound of it, not the other way around.

Which is what Robin Maconie said about Stockhausen when I met him a few years ago...... people like all sorts of sonic experiences

The ENC stuff is just bullshit , people said the same about the Eroica etc etc etc

[Arcades Project]

'

[teamsaint]

Wrong. Class (a) does not exist, and I am willing to bet that you have no evidence whatsoever that it does; class (b) consists mostly of people whose "musical knowledge" when it comes to Lachenmann is no more extensive or arcane than the "musical knowledge" of Mozart possessed by most people who listen to Mozart. Listeners find out more about music because they like the sound of it, not the other way around.

I hesitate to disagree with you,RB, but are you sure about this last line?
seems to me that people are often more curious about the music they dont initially like the sound of, than of the easier or more familiar sounds.
Perhaps i have misunderstood your point.

[anamnesis]

The ending was so quiet he thought it had finished!

(4'33'')

Well, it's not really quiet. If you listen concentrated on 4'33'' you listen in fact to...?
This is the today's brain teaser :-)

[Richard Barrett]

seems to me that people are often more curious about the music they dont initially like the sound of, than of the easier or more familiar sounds.

Maybe I should have said something more like "because they're intrigued by the sound of it." The main point though is that nobody's going to find out more about music which simply doesn't sound interesting to them, doesn't engage them. Some people clearly feel like that about Lachenmann, or Mozart.

[Arcades Project]

'

[Beef Oven]

This is doing exactly what FOR3 has complained about: turning new music into a ghetto. Lachenmann's Tanzsuite mit Deutschlandlied wasn't broadcast on Hear & Now: it was part of a Prom concert. I have no objection to people not liking the work, but all Barbirollians has done is throw trolling insults about.

Is it OK if I just call the stuff he likes when it's broadcast garbage (without any supporting evidence. Just keep saying it?).

Why don't you calm down?

I don't agree with B's position, but should we get crazed about it?

[Beef Oven]

I hesitate to disagree with you,RB, but are you sure about this last line?
seems to me that people are often more curious about the music they dont initially like the sound of, than of the easier or more familiar sounds.
Perhaps i have misunderstood your point.

I know what you mean ts, but for me it's no so much 'not liking the sound of' but more about music that arouses my general sense of curiosity. Down the years this has been Mozart, Beethoven, The Velvets, Can, Zeppelin, just about anyone doing stimulating things.

[french frank]

This is doing exactly what FOR3 has complained about: turning new music into a ghetto. Lachenmann's Tanzsuite mit Deutschlandlied wasn't broadcast on Hear & Now: it was part of a Prom concert.

I agree with that point. If anything is a blot on the forum it's the inability to be able to carry out serious discussion about the things we feel strongly about without people becoming irritating (or confrontational).

This thread is the 'Mozart sceptic' thread.

[Bryn]

How do you convert a Mozart sceptic?

Heel a depression on the ground, place one of the the sceptic's pointy ends in it and kick said sceptic over the cross bar.

[Barbirollians]

Why are you deleting my posts ? This strikes me as no more than censorship to mollify old pals from the Radio 3 forum .

Arcades Projects postings are far more offensive than anything I have posted . He has been repeatedly personally offensive.

Why did you delete my post about Mozart ?