How do you convert a Mozart sceptic?

[Dave2002]

That's fighting talk!

OK - but you have to read the words in context.

[Dave2002]

8) string quintet g-minor K 516

Yes, yes, yes! My current fave.

[anamnesis]

I have a music-loving friend who struggles with Mozart.

IMO, nothing to worry about. When I was 12/13 years old for me Beethoven and Bach, and only Beethoven and Bach all the time. I played and listen to Mozart, but I couldn't "feel" him. When a school collegue at Grammar school told me his favourite composer is Mendelssohn I was irritated (later I could understand him...). I learned the "bi-polar" Mozart when I was grown up. His musical language is extremely complex and "broken", joy and sadness, humour and dispair come together in a most sophisticated, dialectical manner. Beethoven's language is - au contraire - quite simple and direct. Sad is sad, funny is funny, angry is angry and so on. It takes time to discover and understand Mozart.

[anamnesis]

Yes, yes, yes! My current fave.

[K 516]

It's amazing, isn't it. This string quintet anticipates the late Beethoven string quartets, Schubert's quartets/quintets and also, yes, even Brahms' Hungarian Dances. BTW, Hanns Eislers' National Anthem (DDR) is based on the the 3rd movement...

[Richard Tarleton]

I think it was not unusual for composers who had no regular employment to programme their own new works and hope to raise money by subscription concerts. It was how they earned their living. As composers first, rather than performers, who else's music would they play? And who else would play their new work?

A belated response (haven't looked at this thread for a few days, good grief ) - Liszt was more or less unique among 19th century composers in his selfless promotion of the works of other composers, as promoter, conductor and pianist. His generosity and refusal to have a bad word to say about anybody was seldom reciprocated.

[doversoul1]

IMO, nothing to worry about. When I was 12/13 years old for me Beethoven and Bach, and only Beethoven and Bach all the time. I played and listen to Mozart, but I couldn't "feel" him. When a school collegue at Grammar school told me his favourite composer is Mendelssohn I was irritated (later I could understand him...). I learned the "bi-polar" Mozart when I was grown up. His musical language is extremely complex and "broken", joy and sadness, humour and dispair come together in a most sophisticated, dialectical manner. Beethoven's language is - au contraire - quite simple and direct. Sad is sad, funny is funny, angry is angry and so on. It takes time to discover and understand Mozart.

Ah… Isn’t this exactly what Flosshilde means? Be patient, make effort and persevere, and you will get there one day. I imagine that many members of this forum understand, even appreciate what you say about Mozart’s music but have decided that the way in which other composers create music suites their taste better, put Mozart aside and moved on.

I think Floss may be right that this is a peculiarity of Mozart:

Is it only Mozart who (which?) gives rise to 'evangelical fervour'? Many think that JS Bach is a great composer, but you don't see threads trying to persuade others, or suggesting that if you don't like Bach you're a ... (insert suitable term of your choice)

P.S. This is not to suggest that this is what the OP intended to mean.

[Flosshilde]

Doversoul -

[anamnesis]

I imagine that many members of this forum understand, even appreciate what you say about Mozart’s music but have decided that the way in which other composers create music suites their taste better, put Mozart aside and moved on.

Sure. 100% agree. Glenn Gould considered Mozart as overrated composer. He kept the secret why he recorded all the piano sonatas of this overrated composer, though :-) The question is wether those members would "struggle". I think someone who struggles want to understand but can't yet (!). My father told me, that there are three Mozarts. One has to pay the rent and wrote for the people with "den langen Ohren" (see letters to his father, "with long ears" means donkeys, but even a garden bbq music like "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" is a masterpiece), he wrote also for the connoissoires and, yes, for himself. So I recommend the latter works for people who struggle.

[aeolium]

doversoul msg 105

I agree with what you say in the first part of your post. There is no reason why anyone should feel obliged to persevere with music to which they don't respond - it may simply be a matter of taste. But I can't say I have noticed that Mozart exclusively generates a kind of "evangelical fervour", either on this forum or elsewhere. The contrary seems to me more common, the article or post in which someone wonders what people see in Mozart's music and states that it means nothing to them or is just pretty and lacks any depth. On the old boards comments like this seemed to crop up again and again, whereas I can't recall any kind of evangelising, unless you count comments praising particular works or performances and even here such comments seem to be hugely outnumbered by those about Mahler or Beethoven.

I certainly don't intend to evangelise about any composer. It doesn't matter to me if anyone likes or dislikes the music that means a lot to me - there's music of all genres and styles enough for everyone.

[Arcades Project]

;

[Hornspieler]

Quote Originally Posted by anamnesis View Post
Glenn Gould considered Mozart as overrated composer. He kept the secret why he recorded all the piano sonatas of this overrated composer, though :-)
I believe he said they were good as finger exercises.

Not as overrated as Glenn Gould's piano playing in my view.

HS

[VodkaDilc]

I like most composers; I worship a small number; but Mozart is one I can take or leave. I know it's my loss and that he is technically and emotionally stunning - but just not for me. My teenage opinion, formed at a time of everything being black or white, was that Mozart was like early Beethoven without the dramatic bits. I know I'm wrong, so please don't try to convert me. As a young pianist I could never be bothered with the Piano Sonatas, but I got the impression that most of my contemporaries thought the same.

Today I enjoy The Magic Flute, Don Giovanni and the masses - that's about it!

[Simon]

I'm with the majority on this one, as regards the basic principle. If people for whatever reason don't rate a particular piece of music, it's their affair. There seems no good reason to me for anybody else to bother overmuch, save perhaps for a gentle nudge towards a suggestion of a good listening experience or two.

We may indeed feel sad about the fact that the immense pleasure that can be gained from Bach, or Mozart, or some of the other true greats, is denied another human being, but there's probably not much that can realistically be done to change that.

[Simon]

Not as overrated as Glenn Gould's piano playing in my view.

HS

I've always found it a useful rule of thumb, as regards Mr Gould, to pay attention to what he plays but to ignore what he says.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm with the majority on this one, as regards the basic principle. If people for whatever reason don't rate a particular piece of music, it's their affair. There seems no good reason to me for anybody else to bother overmuch, save perhaps for a gentle nudge towards a suggestion of a good listening experience or two.

We may indeed feel sad about the fact that the immense pleasure that can be gained from Bach, or Mozart, or some of the other true greats, is denied another human being, but there's probably not much that can realistically be done to change that.

You're probably right, Simon - and (as any English Literature teacher will concur) badgering someone else to like what you like is as sure a way of alienating them from it even further. But, as there is so much crepe in the world that prevents us from enjoying life, when (as with the case in the OP) somebody requests a "nudge" towards something that might bring them immense pleasure and satisfaction, it's a privilege to be able to do so.