Once too often......

[Pabmusic]

Very selfish, but I know exactly what you mean Faure and Ravel's Pavanes are in that bracket for me. Also as someone who objects to the bleeding chunk approach on R3, I find I have a contradiction in my mind. As time goes by I find that I like the first three movements of Beethoven 9 more and more whereas the finale resides in Room 101.

We may be more alike than you suppose.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Two recent, intense concert experiences of Mahler 5th may force me to ignore the Proms one...

Oh, but don't miss the Lachenmann in part one. (And, if the Nott and the Bambergers are up to their usual standard, I think their performance of the Lachenmann will make curiosity to hear their Mahler #5 just too inticing.)

Le Sacre? Probably just tuning in to R3 too often, whenever it was on, I only ever borrowed the library's Columbia IS one...

Again, I suspect that Les Siecles might well give one of those "Oh! That's how it should go!" moments.

[EdgeleyRob]

Very selfish, but I know exactly what you mean Faure and Ravel's Pavanes are in that bracket for me. Also as someone who objects to the bleeding chunk approach on R3, I find I have a contradiction in my mind. As time goes by I find that I like the first three movements of Beethoven 9 more and more whereas the finale resides in Room 101.

Hmmm,Jayne won't be pleased with you.
Many of us have expressed the same opinion and faced the wrath.

Back in the day,I would never have though that a time would come when I wouldn't be excited by Beethoven Symphonies,and yet it has.

[Roehre]

.....As time goes by I find that I like the first three movements of Beethoven 9 more and more whereas the finale resides in Room 101.

I cannot express this feeling better myself

[But I must admit that listening to the finale in Liszt's one-piano-without-choir arangement it is an impressive work, very similar in structure to the Diabelli-variations - but even then it is not a finale which crowns the three preceding movements IMO]

[EdgeleyRob]

I cannot express this feeling better myself

I was interested to read,in a previous post of yours Roehre,that LvB thought of replacing that finale.

[Roehre]

I was interested to read,in a previous post of yours Roehre,that LvB thought of replacing that finale.

Beethoven told Karl Holz (December 1826) that he was not happy with the finale and liked to replace it.
There are sketches among the last ones B ever dotted down which suggest he already had started a new finale.
That these were not intended for the Tenth symphony follows from the fact that he looked back to the finale of opus 132, which for the best part consists of music intended for the finale of the Ninth before he abandoned that idea in favour of the choral ending as we know it now.

[EdgeleyRob]

Beethoven told Karl Holz (December 1826) that he was not happy with the finale and liked to replace it.
There are sketches among the last ones B ever dotted down which suggest he already had started a new finale.
That these were not intended for the Tenth symphony follows from the fact that he looked back to the finale of opus 132, which for the best part consists of music intended for the finale of the Ninth before he abandoned that idea in favour of the choral ending as we know it now.

Very interesting,thanks Roehre.

[Barbirollians]

Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

[jayne lee wilson]

Hmmm,Jayne won't be pleased with you.
Many of us have expressed the same opinion and faced the wrath.

Back in the day,I would never have though that a time would come when I wouldn't be excited by Beethoven Symphonies,and yet it has.

I find it impossible to get angry about Beethoven's Choral finale just now - as it thrilled me again when R3 broadcast Andris Nelsons' live CBSO one a couple of weeks ago. More than thrilled me... I'd been in bed most of that week, unwell and pretty low. Staggered down to a bowl of soup, then Beethoven's 8th. I thought, oh, I can't face the 9th tonight. Began listening... ended in tears of joy, and feeling much better!

[VodkaDilc]

I think that many Music teachers of my generation became heartily sick of the stock 'music appreciation' pieces which we used in secondary schools (until that became unfashionable with the onset of John Paynter and the creativity gang). There were some wonderful pieces among these, but it's taken some years away from the classroom to make me enjoy them again: The Planets, Hary Janos, Vltava, Young Person's Guide, Water Music, Swan Lake and so on.

[Hautboiste]

Fur Elise (sorry I can't do umlauts :( ) and the Debussy Arabesques thanks to a piano teacher who was the forerunner of Hyacinth Bucket

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Beethoven told Karl Holz (December 1826) that he was not happy with the finale and liked to replace it.

Is this in the conversation books, Roehre?

[Ferretfancy]

Much as I like Tchaikovsky, I would be happy not to hear the 5th for a long time, not because of the first three movements, but for the blatantly tub thumping finale.
Conversely the thrilling opening of VW's Sea Symphony still gets me, but I could cheerfully chuck the rest, so the opening night of this year's Proms is not for me I'm afraid.

[Roehre]

Is this in the conversation books, Roehre?

No, it's in Holz's recollections as communicated to Frau Linzbauer, as quoted by Thayer/Deiters/Riemann vol.5, p.326 note 1, as well as in Ludwig Nohl, Beethoven, Liszt and Wagner. I've seen the former, not the latter. The latter discusses the finale of the Ninth which was considered by Wagner as the non-plus-ultra, however pointing out that Beethoven eventually was less impressed by that movement.

The sketch for an alternative finale is found in pocket sketchbook Autograph 10, bundle 2, now in Berlin, just before the page which Schindler [incorrectly] marked as Beethoven's last thoughts, a scherzo.

[EdgeleyRob]

I find it impossible to get angry about Beethoven's Choral finale just now - as it thrilled me again when R3 broadcast Andris Nelsons' live CBSO one a couple of weeks ago. More than thrilled me... I'd been in bed most of that week, unwell and pretty low. Staggered down to a bowl of soup, then Beethoven's 8th. I thought, oh, I can't face the 9th tonight. Began listening... ended in tears of joy, and feeling much better!

That's good to hear Jayne.