Conductors - What Effect Does All That Arm-waving Have?

[MrGongGong]

yes,it's a great pity Beecham liked the sound of his voice so much and couldn't resist a cheap jibe at anyone, even his then wife.[Story about piano and Betty Humby Beecham}

If we just had his recordings to remember him by, he would be respected more by people nowadays.

Heard live, he could bring magic to many pieces of music and often it was like hearing a work for the first time when he conducted it.

I think you are probably right there. I'm too young to have heard him conduct live so have to rely on film and recordings. The footage of him on the Delius film earlier in the year didn't endear me to his character at all and I did wonder what a pity it was that Delius didn't have someone more empathetic to champion his music !

[Sir Velo]

A good piece on Bernard Haitink's arm waving ,

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical...w-must-go-2012

Makes you wonder whether he's worth his fee given how little he does! If a young conductor left soloist and orchestra to their own devices like this, they would be laughed out of town.

What one has to remember is that Haitink is a name, and his presence commands respect. Consequently, his stance at the podium is sufficient to ensure that any orchestra will perform for him. I don't think, however, that this laissez-faire approach would work as a blueprint for a young, unknown conductor. Should he/she try this, they would just find themselves ignored at best, mocked at worst by orchestras. This is why conductors like the young Karajan, Solti, and yes, even the sainted Bernard, garner reputations as martinets when young, as it is generally the only way to get a response from orchestras, until such time as a reputation is made.

[Sir Velo]

I think you are probably right there. I'm too young to have heard him conduct live so have to rely on film and recordings. The footage of him on the Delius film earlier in the year didn't endear me to his character at all and I did wonder what a pity it was that Delius didn't have someone more empathetic to champion his music !

Well, by all accounts, Delius was a less than congenial character, so they were probably well suited! Moreover, Delius frequently professed himself ravished by Beecham's championship, so it is doubtful whether any other conductor could have interpreted his music with greater empathy. One only has to listen to the magic on the old Sony transfers of the late 40s and 50s recordings made by Beecham of works such as "Eventyr", or "Over the Hills and Far Away" to appreciate that intangible extra bit of magic he could inveigle from the scores.

[Hornspieler]

yes,it's a great pity Beecham liked the sound of his voice so much and couldn't resist a cheap jibe at anyone, even his then wife.[Story about piano and Betty Humby Beecham}

If we just had his recordings to remember him by, he would be respected more by people nowadays.

Heard live, he could bring magic to many pieces of music and often it was like hearing a work for the first time when he conducted it.

Good morning Saly,

I am probably one of the very few people still alive who actually played for Beecham. Certainly, he treated me, an eighteen year old novice, with as much respect as any other member of the orchestra.

I think I would prefer to substitute 'cheap jibe' with the words 'sly dig' to better express those reported (and often misreported) remarks.

Yes, he could make sardonic and cutting remarks on occasions but very often because he was encouraged by the media to do so.
As for that "Book of Beecham Stories" I can assure you that most of them are apocryphal, but one or two were 'tongue in cheek' to amuse the listener.

However, here is one tale that I know to be true because I was there:

Sir Thomas appeared to be preoccupied and not in the best of moods. We kept our heads
down and so did he, not looking up from his score. After about fifteen minutes, he suddenly
roared, without raising his head, “Second bassoon! Too loud!”

The principal flautist immediately jumped to his feet. “Excuse me, Sir Thomas. The second
bassoon hasn't arrived yet. He sent a message that his car has broken down.”

Was there the suggestion of a smirk on the speaker's face?

Sir Thomas, quite unfazed, regarded his informant for a few seconds before replying.

“Thank you very much for letting us all know. Perhaps you would be good enough to convey
my comments to the gentleman in question when he does get here?”

We should remember Tommy for his championing of Delius (aided by Eric Fenby) and also his promotion of Berlioz and many of the French composers who were almost unknown in this country. He spent much of his later years in Paris and there are many splendid recordings of his work with the Paris Orchestra.

That was his own money that he put into the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. In my book, he was entitled to have his own way.

HS

[amateur51]

A good piece on Bernard Haitink's arm waving ,

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical...w-must-go-2012

Lovely stuff, Alison - many thanks for posting

Interesting piece of film of Haitink in a conducting masterclass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjMyx06nR5M

Some film of LSO's first and also of its most recent tour of USA with comparisons; Gergiev briefly talks about Artur Nikisch's technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjTykl5qKRI

[Richard Tarleton]

Gergiev briefly talks about Artur Nikisch's technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjTykl5qKRI

A fascinating thread. That footage of Nikisch features in this video, which I see now fetches eyewatering prices as a VHS tape...but as a silent film, the commentary saying no-one knew what Nikisch was conducting. Nice to see it matched to some music, clearly it could have been either Brahms or Egmont!

[amateur51]

Choosing a young conductor - what orchestral professionals are looking for ...


The Donatella Flick LSO Conducting Competition 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3rTBLCSyY

[Nick Armstrong]

here is one tale that I know to be true because I was there

As you know from a previous appearance, I do love that story. Can you also remember the orchestra's reaction? Did everyone fall about at the wittiness of it all, with Sir Thos. twinkling and sharing the joke? Or was it suppressed smirks and chuckles and on with the job?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Donatella Flick LSO Conducting Competition 2012

I thought a "Donatella Flick" was a particularly impressive baton manoeuvre!

[BBMmk2]

Speaking a s amusician etc, I have been in orchestras and nbrass bands and suffice it to say, I and a lot of other musicians i know, do look at the nconductor and listen to everyone else and what thecondeuctor is doing, during nthe rehersals and(more importantly, imo), at the concertt itself/

Actually, as far as all that waving about is concerned, I dont know if this has been mentioned before in this thread, imo, is quite a healthgy occupation, all that cardio-vascular excercisiong they are doing. Imagine how could that is for their hearts?

[Hornspieler]

As you know from a previous appearance, I do love that story. Can you also remember the orchestra's reaction? Did everyone fall about at the wittiness of it all, with Sir Thos. twinkling and sharing the joke? Or was it suppressed smirks and chuckles and on with the job?

Hoots of laughter, - and a big grin from Tommy. As I recall, the rather gloomy atmosphere, with Tommy, head down and 'stirring the pudding', lightened immediately and we all got on with the job.

HS

[amateur51]

I thought a "Donatella Flick" was a particularly impressive baton manoeuvre!

She says she's never heard that before, ferney

[Karafan]

A fascinating thread. That footage of Nikisch features in this video, which I see now fetches eyewatering prices as a VHS tape...but as a silent film, the commentary saying no-one knew what Nikisch was conducting. Nice to see it matched to some music, clearly it could have been either Brahms or Egmont!

Talking of the 'Great conductors' film - does anyone recall that on the original TV transmission Solti appeared, swathed in a canary yellow sweater, talking (IIRC) about I think Weingartner (though I could be in error there), but in his hugely colourful way describing him as "an eeeeenorrrmous fellow, a towering Prussian areeeestocrrrat". When the film made it to DVD there was no trace of this snippet. Does anyone else recall it (or have a copy of the original broadcast??).

Karafan

[Richard Tarleton]

Talking of the 'Great conductors' film - does anyone recall that on the original TV transmission Solti appeared, swathed in a canary yellow sweater, talking (IIRC) about I think Weingartner (though I could be in error there), but in his hugely colourful way describing him as "an eeeeenorrrmous fellow, a towering Prussian areeeestocrrrat". When the film made it to DVD there was no trace of this snippet. Does anyone else recall it (or have a copy of the original broadcast??).

Karafan

Sadly my VHS tape is no longer extant - if it was still on that I've forgotten....I think the VHS tape was rather shorter than the TV prog.

[Petrushka]

Sadly my VHS tape is no longer extant - if it was still on that I've forgotten....I think the VHS tape was rather shorter than the TV prog.

I still have the VHS tape but nothing to play it on! I think it's on youTube somewhere but it really deserves a DVD (re-)issue.