Conductors - What Effect Does All That Arm-waving Have?

[Nick Armstrong]

HS I would appreciate a link to that programme 'Symphony' with Mark Elder as I couldn't find it.

When and on which channel ?

bestio

saly it's the current "8pm Friday" slot on BBC4 - here's the link to the one last Friday, which was No 3 in the series: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01778mc

There's one more coming up this Friday.

(They are being re-run from 2011... I found this weekend that I have them all recorded but haven't watched the last 3 yet...)

[amateur51]

If a conductor's behaviour in rehearsal is offensive or insulting, he needs to remember that the actual performance is "payback time"
(I disagree about Beecham - he recruited the best players available for his orchestra and, when asked to explain his success replied simply
"I let them play.") HS

You are quite right that Beecham's orchestras were hand-picked by the maestro HS. However, as this clip shows, Beecham still knew best of all and would point out 'moments of difficulty' to his players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQfRAGpDtzk&list=PL2D2D08D24207EE56

In other words he was the paterfamilias, a role that requires others to be submissive, like children and in this case very gifted children.

Beecham performances were often remarkable which is a testimony to his approach & personnel selection. One of the people who were the object of his scorn may well have been Sergiu Celibidache who wanted, nay demanded, many many rehearsals. But Celibidache was generally dealing with far larger and more complex orchestral scores than was Beecham's wont and he too was able to create remarkable accounts of thes pieces, a tribute to his entirely contrary methods.

Must be magic, y'know

[salymap]

saly it's the current "8pm Friday" slot on BBC4 - here's the link to the one last Friday, which was No 3 in the series: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01778mc

There's one more coming up this Friday.

(They are being re-run from 2011... I found this weekend that I have them all recorded but haven't watched the last 3 yet...)

Cali, thanks forthat

[amateur51]

Cali, thanks forthat

Cali's layout is more user-friendly that that of Radio Times, salymap

[Keraulophone]

While perhaps not as diverting as the original book, this short film (or should that be film short?) from 1965 demonstrates some of the (non-)essentials of conducting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEisr5EpkGM

[MrGongGong]

You are quite right that Beecham's orchestras were hand-picked by the maestro HS. However, as this clip shows, Beecham still knew best of all and would point out 'moments of difficulty' to his players.

The more I see film of him the less I like the man
Maybe I should stick to listening to the music rather than the arrogant pontificating ?

The really great conductors I have encountered (and that goes for players as well) have a bit more empathy about them
maybe it works for the "mainstream repertoire" ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX1ljYx3g3k

[Hornspieler]

HS I would appreciate a link to that programme 'Symphony' with Mark Elder as I couldn't find it.

When and on which channel ?

bestio

Hi Sal

BBC TV (any) on the red button. Click on iPlayer (wait patiently) Click on Music (another wait) Look for "Symphony" on Friday 7th June.
Start programme by pressing OK when invited.

Best

HS

[teamsaint]

Cali's layout is more user-friendly that that of Radio Times, salymap

and this is a useful thread.

or it would be if anybody used it!!

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?7999-Music-coming-up-on-television

Ah well, just ahead of its time I suppose.

[amateur51]

The more I see film of him the less I like the man
Maybe I should stick to listening to the music rather than the arrogant pontificating ?

The really great conductors I have encountered (and that goes for players as well) have a bit more empathy about them
maybe it works for the "mainstream repertoire" ?

Here's Abbado rehearsing Debussy La Mer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P56JLnQrS98

in which he encourages the players to 'listen to each other"

And here's Barbirolli cajoling the Hallé orchestra to come round to his point of view in the scherzo of Bruckner symphony no 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcDBBYBTP-4

Why is there no icon for a double Johnnie Walker Black Label ?

[Beef Oven]

The more I see film of him the less I like the man
Maybe I should stick to listening to the music rather than the arrogant pontificating ?

The really great conductors I have encountered (and that goes for players as well) have a bit more empathy about them
maybe it works for the "mainstream repertoire" ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX1ljYx3g3k

So that's why you don't use a baton when you conduct!!!!!

You got it off Bugs Bunny!!!

And there I was thinking you were being trendy

[salymap]

Hi Sal

BBC TV (any) on the red button. Click on iPlayer (wait patiently) Click on Music (another wait) Look for "Symphony" on Friday 7th June.
Start programme by pressing OK when invited.

Best

HS

Thanks HS this has been a very interesting thread altogether,

bestio,Saly

[Once Was 4]

This reminds me that Sir Charles Groves was a regular, and very welcome, guest conductor for the Opera North Orchestra (then called the 'English Northern Philharmonia) on its forays into the concert hall right up to just before his death. The sub-leader in the first two years of the orchestra's existence, a rather racy character, had been his sub-leader in the RLPO for a time.

One day, at a 'seating call' in one of the north's less salubrious concert halls - with a cramped and uncomfortable stage - he asked 'is there anybody who cannot see me?' One hand went up - belonging to the sub-leader sitting right under his nose. As quick as a flash Sir Charles responded "you don't want to see!"

[Alison]

A good piece on Bernard Haitink's arm waving ,

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/extract-show-must-go-2012

[Petrushka]

A good piece on Bernard Haitink's arm waving ,

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical...w-must-go-2012

Thanks for that enjoyable read, Alison. Back in 1984 I dropped into a Haitink rehearsal at the RFH (Elgar 2) and despite the passage of time it was pretty much the same. Took a few photos as well.

I dropped into a few rehearsals in those days. Abbado said barely anything (LSO, Mahler 5) but the one I most remember is when Yevgeny Svetlanov was rehearsing one of his own pieces (forget which) and the LSO were having great fun with it, especially in mimicing the chugging rhythms, and Svetlanov entered into the spirit of their humour. The LSO behaved impeccably at the concert that evening!

[salymap]

yes,it's a great pity Beecham liked the sound of his voice so much and couldn't resist a cheap jibe at anyone, even his then wife.[Story about piano and Betty Humby Beecham}

If we just had his recordings to remember him by, he would be respected more by people nowadays.

Heard live, he could bring magic to many pieces of music and often it was like hearing a work for the first time when he conducted it.