MAHLER and BRUCKNER - the TRUE ROMANTICS

[Petrushka]

alle horner stehen auf, um die moglichst grosste schalkraft zu erzielen

"All the horns stand up to make the biggest sound possible". There's a film of Abbado rehearsing the work for his first concert as Music Director of the BPO: when they get to this bit, the Horn section stood up to play; Abbado looks embarrassed and tells them to stay sitting, but play as loudly as they can.

Yes, that moment is unfortunately reminiscent of Glenn Miller or Syd Lawrence but in performance is a thrilling visual reinforcement of the aural. I've seen Abbado in the piece several times and I don't think he had the horn section on their feet at any of them.

My very first Mahler LP was Haitink's recording of No 1 with the Concertgebouw purchased exactly 40 years ago and it completely blew me away (as it still does). My first live Mahler 1 was the Halle Orchestra and Sir John Pritchard in 1975.

My first Bruckner recording of all was of the 8th: Furtwängler and the VPO in 1944. Not a first choice maybe but an earth-shaking performance given at a terrible and momentous time. The Wagner tuba passage (heard twice) in the Adagio still evokes for me 'the pity of war' no matter whose performance I hear.

The Halle again provided my first live experience: Loughran in 1977 and Arvid Jansons (father of Mariss) in 1978. The most unforgettable and one of the greatest concert hall experiences of my life was to hear Karajan and the BPO in this work in June 1979 in London.

These two symphonies, happily brought together by HS in his OP, are absolutely central to my musical life as are their respective composers.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, that moment is unfortunately reminiscent of Glenn Miller or Syd Lawrence but in performance is a thrilling visual reinforcement of the aural.

Or Stokowski: there's also a recording of a rehearsal of the Brahms First where he seems to call out "Belt up!", which causes some understandable confusion. He'd actually shouted "Bells Up!" to the horn section.

The Halle again provided my first live experience: Loughran on 1977

It was around this time that there was a radio broadcast of the Hallé performing the work under Loughran: the first time I'd ever heard it. Couldn't stand it! (Blame the mono bedside transitor radio and my cloth teenage ears rather than Loughran.)

The most unforgettable and one of the greatest concert hall experiences of my life was to hear Karajan and the BPO in this work in June 1979 in London.

I so wanted to go to this - but couldn't afford the (rail or concert) tickets. The next day, the Daily Telegraph critic (whose name, of course, we all remember far better than we do Karajan's ) described the conductor as "the superannuated Karajan"!

[gurnemanz]

What do boarders think of Jascha Horenstein's recording of Mahler's Symphony No.4?

Thanks for the prompt. It was my only version for a couple of decades and I found it marvellous. It must be still there in the garage. I may dig it out.....Found it!



(I'd forgettten about tobacco sponsoring of classical music recordings. As far as I remember Mahler was a heavy smoker - and coffee addict - so not so inappropriate, maybe. )

[Petrushka]

Or Stokowski: there's also a recording of a rehearsal of the Brahms First where he seems to call out "Belt up!", which causes some understandable confusion. He'd actually shouted "Bells Up!" to the horn section.


It was around this time that there was a radio broadcast of the Hallé performing the work under Loughran: the first time I'd ever heard it. Couldn't stand it! (Blame the mono bedside transitor radio and my cloth teenage ears rather than Loughran.)


I so wanted to go to this - but couldn't afford the (rail or concert) tickets. The next day, the Daily Telegraph critic (whose name, of course, we all remember far better than we do Karajan's ) described the conductor as "the superannuated Karajan"!

The Halle/ Loughran was paired with Brendel playing the Schumann PC, Oct 13 1977. I recall Loughran left the stage between two of the movements returning a few minutes later but never found out why.

The 1979 Karajan was broadcast on Capital FM (!!) and I managed to find a recording of it a couple of years ago but despite pretty good sound, there is some radio interference and a slight break in the Adagio when someone clearly had to change tape. I live in hope that a better one is in existence somewhere.

[Cheapskater]

HS, Thank you for your most interesting post. I also greatly enjoyed this performance and agree with you on Rattle's conducting, it seemed to me that he really gave the orchestra their cues. I also recognised many of the players who are members of Abbado's Lucerne Festival Orchestra.

Incidentally, I'm sure many of us would be interested to hear of conductors that you worked with and, from my viewpoint, Elgar concerts/recordings that you played on.

[Hornspieler]

HS, Thank you for your most interesting post. I also greatly enjoyed this performance and agree with you on Rattle's conducting, it seemed to me that he really gave the orchestra their cues. I also recognised many of the players who are members of Abbado's Lucerne Festival Orchestra.

Incidentally, I'm sure many of us would be interested to hear of conductors that you worked with and, from my viewpoint, Elgar concerts/recordings that you played on.

The following list of conductors is copied from a spreadsheet - Others may come back to mind and will be added as necessary.

Alan Abott, Christopher Adeney, Reginald Kilby, Richard Austin, Alexander Kopalov, Brian Balkwill, Christopher Ball, George Barker, Cuthbert Bates, Sir Thomas Beecham, Paavo Berglund, Harry Blech, Sir Arthur Bliss, Sir Adrian Boult, Warwick Braithwaite, Nicholas Braithwaite, Antony F Brown, Richard Butt, Basil Cameron, John Carewe, Ambrose Chalk, Crossley Clitheroe, Eric Coates, Antony Collins, Sergiu Comissiona, Edgar Cosma, Noel Cox, William Cox-Ife, Meredith Davies, Arthur Davison, Sir Colin Davis, Norman Del Mar, Antal Dorati, Miklos Erdelyi, Charles Farncombe, Arthur Fiedler, Anatole Fistoulari, Lawrence Foster, John Fox, Myers Foggin, Alun Francis, Louis Fremaux, Alceo Galliera, Sir Alexander Gibson, Isadore Godfrey, Sir Eugene Goosens, Harold Gray, Sir Charles Groves, Bernard Haitinck,, Maurice Handford, Hans Richter Hasser, Jascha Horenstein, David Hughes, George Hurst, Ray Jenkins, Michael Krein, Royalton Kisch, Henry Kripps, Harry Legge, Lawrence Leonard, Raymond Leppard, George Liberace, Monia Liter, David Littauer, Malcolm Lockyer,Terence Lovatt, Sir Charles Mackerras, David Martin, Muir Matheson, Herbert Menges, Maurice Miles, John McN Milne, Jeremy Montague, Kenneth Montgomery, Wynn Morris, Emar O’Brien, Dermot O’Hara, Robert Philpott, Sir John Pritchard, Leo Quale, Clarence Raybould, Ernest Read, Leslie Regan, Kathleen Riddick, Hugo Rignold, James Robertson, Eric Robinson, Stanford Robinson, Christopher Robinson, Eric Rogers, Gennady Rozhdesvensky, Sir Malcolm Sargent,Wolfgang Sawallisch, Hermann Scherchen, Rudolf Schwarz, Christopher Seaman, Frank Shipway, Constantin Silvestri, Stanislaw Skrowaczewski, Sir George Solti, Walter Susskind, Ian Sutherland, Vilem Tausky, Eric Thiman, Sydney Torch, Paul Tortelier, Stanley Vann, Gilbert Vinter, Edo De Waart, Alfred Walenstein, Bruno Walter, Volker Wangenheim, Eric Wetherell, Lou Whiteson, David Zinman, Algar Zuriatis.

Well, you did ask!

I played on recordings/broadcasts of Elgar's Violin Concerto, Alassio and 1st symphony and 2nd symphony. Possibly others - I'm not sure.

HS (Phew!!)

Favourite conductors are printed in Red

[Cheapskater]

HS Thanks for that, a distinguished career. May I ask what your top three conductors would be, from your players viewpoint?
Also, I have most of the Elgar recordings, can I listen out for you on any of them? (I think you mentioned BBC SO?)

Cheaps.

[Once Was 4]

The Halle/ Loughran was paired with Brendel playing the Schumann PC, Oct 13 1977. I recall Loughran left the stage between two of the movements returning a few minutes later but never found out why.

The 1979 Karajan was broadcast on Capital FM (!!) and I managed to find a recording of it a couple of years ago but despite pretty good sound, there is some radio interference and a slight break in the Adagio when someone clearly had to change tape. I live in hope that a better one is in existence somewhere.

With regard to Loughran leaving the stage in Bruckner 8 (which was being recorded for the BBC that night) I was playing as an extra in the horn section. He was disturbed by the air conditioning and went out to tell the hall staff to switch it off - then he came back and made a speech to the audience which totally destroyed the atmosphere of the performance. The BBC, of course, cut this hiatus out of the broadcast. Looking at my diary for 1977 I see that it was the first of five performances: the others being in Sheffield City Hall, Bradford St Georges Hall (just up the road from where I lived then as now), Hanley Victoria Hall and London Royal Festival hall.

[Hornspieler]

HS Thanks for that, a distinguished career. May I ask what your top three conductors would be, from your players viewpoint?
Also, I have most of the Elgar recordings, can I listen out for you on any of them? (I think you mentioned BBC SO?)

Cheaps.

Jascha Horenstein
Bruno Walter
Constantin Silvestri

All inspirational.

I played Elgar 2 with the BBC SO under Sir Malcolm Sargent in the Royal Festival Hall in 1956. (One of EIGHT horns!)

The others were all with Constantin Silvestri and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (CS was a great interpreter of the music of both Elgar and Walton)

HS

[richardfinegold]

For me, two of the most memorable performances in which I took part were Mahler's Symphony Nº 1 with the BBC symphony Orchestra conducted by Bruno Walter and Bruckner's Symphony Nº 8* with the LPO conducted by Sir George Solti.

Strangely - but not for that reason, the Mahler was the first of his works that I played in and the Bruckner was the last major symphonic work that I played during my playing career.

Delight for me, then, that this Easter weekend gave me both:

Kent Nagano conducting Bruckner's 8th with the DSO (Sky Arts 2) and Sir Simon Rattle conducting Mahler's 1st with the Berlin Philharmonic. (An added bonus was a superb rendering of Rachmaninof's Symphonic Dances, which I consider to be that composer's finest work.)

* My two favourite conductors have always been Bruno Walter and Jascha Horenstein and Horenstein's Bruckner 8th with the LSO is my personal benchmark for that symphony.

Did anyone else catch those two concerts on TV and what did you think?

I was particularly impressed by Simon Rattle's conducting, which was an inspiration, I felt, for both orchestra and audience.

HS

I have both Horenstein and Solti's recordings of Bruckner 8 (Solti with the CSO). Which do you prefer, HS?

[Petrushka]

With regard to Loughran leaving the stage in Bruckner 8 (which was being recorded for the BBC that night) I was playing as an extra in the horn section. He was disturbed by the air conditioning and went out to tell the hall staff to switch it off - then he came back and made a speech to the audience which totally destroyed the atmosphere of the performance. The BBC, of course, cut this hiatus out of the broadcast. Looking at my diary for 1977 I see that it was the first of five performances: the others being in Sheffield City Hall, Bradford St Georges Hall (just up the road from where I lived then as now), Hanley Victoria Hall and London Royal Festival hall.

Many thanks for solving a 35 and a half year old mystery! I attended many Halle concerts in that period either in Manchester or Hanley and they did some good programmes. As a novice concert-goer it was a superb grounding.

[Cheapskater]

Jascha Horenstein
Bruno Walter
Constantin Silvestri

All inspirational.

I played Elgar 2 with the BBC SO under Sir Malcolm Sargent in the Royal Festival Hall in 1956. (One of EIGHT horns!)

The others were all with Constantin Silvestri and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra (CS was a great interpreter of the music of both Elgar and Walton)

HS

Thanks for your insight HS. Reminds me I must get hold of some Horenstein Mahler, which I hear is rated highly.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks for your insight HS. Reminds me I must get hold of some Horenstein Mahler, which I hear is rated highly.

Good idea, 'skatey: any of them are excellent recordings, but nos 3 and 7 and Das Lied von der Erde are particularly good. (Only the 3rd was recorded in the studio: Horenstein's neglect by the record companies was as infuriating as it is inexplicable.)

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

It would probably surprise Lorin Maazel, too!

http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninov-Sy.../dp/B00000E2OC

It was close. What Rattle acutally said was that this was the first time the Berlin Phil had played it in concert.

Very much enjoyed the Rachmaninov - stylish playing. Mahler 1 just about to commence at Inquisition Towers...

[Petrushka]

The RT states that the BPO/Rattle broadcast was 'new' but I'm quite sure it's the one I recorded from BBC4 last June (I think).