Did van Dieren really murder Warlock?

[Sydney Grew]

In the Wikipædia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_van_Dieren we find the startling suggestion that one composer - the Dutch secret-service man Bernard van Dieren - may have murdered another composer - the Englishman Philip Heseltine (who for some weird reason loved to call himself "Warlock"). In Grove's Dictionary Mr. Chisholm appears to refer obliquely to the matter when he writes "The . . . accusation of his [van Dieren's] having a baleful and indeed fatal effect on some of his friends is . . . unjustified."

How can Mr. Chisholm be so baldly certain that it is "unjustified"? It is more likely that he does not know, in which case he should say just that: that he has no evidence one way or the other. If he is certain that it is unjustified he should tell us why.

Can any one tell us more about the case? Cecil Gray doesn't appear to mention it.

[Thropplenoggin]

How can Mr. Chisholm be so baldly certain that it is "unjustified"? It is more likely that he does not know, in which case he should say just that: that he has no evidence one way or the other. If he is certain that it is unjustified he should tell us why.

You know what they say, hair today, gone tomorrow.

[Bryn]

Not "gone today, heir tomorrow"?

[french frank]

Not "gone today, heir tomorrow"?
__;

Which seems to have met with disapproval from Warlock's (reputed) son, the origin of the murder suggestion ...

[Bryn]

Which seems to have met with disapproval from Warlock's (reputed) son, the origin of the murder suggestion ...

Quite. Now remind me, who was that son's biological mother? It's the maternity rather than paternity which is usually cited as open to question in this instance.
_/_

[Ferretfancy]

In "Music Ho' by Constant Lambert, there are a number of references to van Dieren, has anybody here heard any of his music ? I've looked for it out of curiosity, I believe there is a Chinese Symphony, but I've never encountered a note of it.

[Oldcrofter]

String quartet no.6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LirzQPj8yg4

Piano "Solo Sonata"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK5TgAaLuVs

[Serial_Apologist]

String quartet no.6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LirzQPj8yg4

Piano "Solo Sonata"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK5TgAaLuVs

Many thanks, OC!

High time we heard some of this man's music - whatever we think of him as a person... from what we have been told...

[Simon]

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that he did. On the other hand, there seems to be plenty of evidence the Heseltine was a deeply disturbed man. This last statement proves nothing as regards the death, but could perhaps lead one towards a view on the balance of probability.

RIP, whichever.

[ahinton]

No charges against anyone, including accusers, have ever been brought and are hardly likely to be brought now. As to Simon's assertion that "there seems to be plenty of evidence the Heseltine was a deeply disturbed man", why should he be surprised? Van Dieren presumably was as well. As was Schumann, Chopin, Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner, Busoni - where do we stop? - indeed, where do we ever start? They were all composers, after all!

[teamsaint]

No charges against anyone, including accusers, have ever been brought and are hardly likely to be brought now. As to Simon's assertion that "there seems to be plenty of evidence the Heseltine was a deeply disturbed man", why should he be surprised? Van Dieren presumably was as well. As was Schumann, Chopin, Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner, Busoni - where do we stop? - indeed, where do we ever start? They were all composers, after all!

quite. Where?

Anyway, fascinating thread in a multi layered way. Multi layers being essential both physically and mentally, at present, it seems.

[Bryn]

In "Music Ho' by Constant Lambert, there are a number of references to van Dieren, has anybody here heard any of his music ? I've looked for it out of curiosity, I believe there is a Chinese Symphony, but I've never encountered a note of it.

Coming soon:

[Lat-Literal]

Coming soon:

Two versions are on YT. I was listening to parts of one only yesterday and reading about him on the internet. Interesting musically - actually very interesting - but I can't take to him or Warlock as people. Lambert fares slightly better - I have Rio Grande, Horoscope etc - but again reservations, especially re Margot (as in not Jacquelyn) Fonteyn (Fontyn).

[Beef Oven!]

No charges against anyone, including accusers, have ever been brought and are hardly likely to be brought now. As to Simon's assertion that "there seems to be plenty of evidence the Heseltine was a deeply disturbed man", why should he be surprised? Van Dieren presumably was as well. As was Schumann, Chopin, Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner, Busoni - where do we stop? - indeed, where do we ever start? They were all composers, after all!

From what I know, Bruckner, Mahler and Wagner weren’t deeply disturbed (saying nothing about the rest, who were probably no different). Obviously some issues, here and there.

[Pabmusic]

From what I know, Bruckner, Mahler and Wagner weren’t deeply disturbed (saying nothing about the rest, who were probably no different). Obviously some issues, here and there.

An Asperger's convention (or mild autism, if you prefer).