Music appreciation/enjoyment and technical knowledge

[Andrew Preview]

I love music. I listen to it actively, often to the point of being truly immersed in it. Yet, I have no formal musical training - probably unlike most of the members of this forum. I sang at school, solo and as part of a choir, but that's all the experience I have of musical performance. So, I've often wondered how much more I might enjoy music if I had more technical knowledge.

I suppose I respond to music more on an emotional than an intellectual level, but that could just be because my lack of knowledge limits me in that way. Admittedly, I have acquired a certain amount of knowledge over the years, just from reading about music. And I think that has enhanced my appreciation and enjoyment to a degree - which sounds like I'm answering my own question! But I still wonder how much more I would get out of music if I had the time and the inclination to expand my knowledge significantly. My guess is that I would appreciate it more without necessarily enjoying it that much more.

Given that most members of this forum have probably worked very hard over the years to develop their musical knowledge, I'd be interested in views on the impact that's had on your appreciation and enjoyment.

[Nick Armstrong]

Interesting, this. I suspect I am very much like you... I learned the piano (exams etc) in parallel with playing the trombone at school... I've kept both up sporadically, more so the piano, but rustily. Also did O level music... But I'm not very good at theoretical music, I don't listen particularly analytically to the music itself (though I like being analytical about comparative performances). My response is emotional too. Indeed, the pieces where I've had to get to grips analytically e.g. the pieces I did at O-level, or orchestral pieces I've played, have lost something as a result (with two exceptions - Mahler 5 and Rachmaninov 2) - I listen to such pieces differently, and not in a way I like.

On balance, I prefer music retaining the mystery of something unanalysed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But I still wonder how much more I would get out of music if I had the time and the inclination to expand my knowledge significantly. My guess is that I would appreciate it more without necessarily enjoying it that much more.

Depends what sort of person you are, AP: some people get everything they want or need from Music (and the Arts ingeneral) entirely through the pleasure it gives them. Others cannot resist the urge to "find out" as much as they can about it, their enjoyment increasing with their appreciation. I'm in the latter group: like David Attenborough, I find that things that capture my attention become more miraculous the more I know how they "work".

[french frank]

I don't think that any of my pathetic attempts at learning to play an instrument (hence some basic knowledge of theory) has had much connection with my music listening. But I do compulsively read CD liner notes, programme notes &c. as context, some of which are illuminating, some merely interesting. But even 'merely interesting' can lead you into further discoveries. All very amateurish.

[Quarky]

But I still wonder how much more I would get out of music if I had the time and the inclination to expand my knowledge significantly.

It's time available which is the main thing, isn't it? I've had made various efforts over the years to get further into music from an initial position of knowing absolutely nothing about music, but always work and other more pressing social activities got in the way.

My most recent effort involved lessons on elementary composition and music appreciation from a local concert pianist. We concentrated on Bach BWV 1004, and I did learn a lot about that. But then I felt that looking ahead, I really wanted to get stuck into 20th century music, and all this cramming about elementary chord structures wasn't going to help. I may have been wrong, I was developing a more musical ear.

If I developed in the future a burning desire to learn more about some specific aspect of music, a style of music, or a composer, I might seek out a teacher again, but I think probably I have just too much on my plate. So I just listen.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I do find that listening to music with a score or analytical programme notes enhances my appreciation.

[mercia]

I guess anybody can enjoy a walk in the countryside, but a botanist will "see" more

or is that the wrong analogy ?

[EdgeleyRob]

It's time available which is the main thing, isn't it? I've had made various efforts over the years to get further into music from an initial position of knowing absolutely nothing about music, but always work and other more pressing social activities got in the way.

My most recent effort involved lessons on elementary composition and music appreciation from a local concert pianist. We concentrated on Bach BWV 1004, and I did learn a lot about that. But then I felt that looking ahead, I really wanted to get stuck into 20th century music, and all this cramming about elementary chord structures wasn't going to help. I may have been wrong, I was developing a more musical ear.

If I developed in the future a burning desire to learn more about some specific aspect of music, a style of music, or a composer, I might seek out a teacher again, but I think probably I have just too much on my plate. So I just listen.

That's me to a tee.
No musical training,can't read music or play an instrument,and yet I couldn't live without music,I'm sure I would go mad without it.
I love looking at printed music,its so beautiful, and even make up stuff in my head, there are ideas for symphonies and all sorts in there,but I wouldn't have a clue how to write them down.
I would love to learn to play an instrument and maybe take a course in theory,perhaps when I retire.
At the moment though there just isn't the time.
This forum is my musical education and I thank all the wonderful contributors on here for sharing their knowledge with musical numpties such as me.

[Old Grumpy]

Interesting thread: I am certainly in the category of an enthusiastic non-musician. I do wonder if those with much more technical knowledge and expertise might find themselves unable to enjoy the music if they become too analytical. My (graduate in music) daughter is certainly much more critical and spots mistakes (both in her own performance and that of others) that pass me by.

OG

[Boilk]

...some people get everything they want or need from Music...entirely through the pleasure it gives them. Others cannot resist the urge to "find out" as much as they can about it, their enjoyment increasing with their appreciation.

It works both ways. One can wonder at what one's heard (even a single chord change or sonority) and 'demystify' the wonder by perusing the score. In some instances after "finding out", the workings of the magic become rationalised, assimilated and the sense of wonder undermined. Yet sometimes it remains, and I think that's the emotional component not intellectual.

[teamsaint]

That's me to a tee.
No musical training,can't read music or play an instrument,and yet I couldn't live without music,I'm sure I would go mad without it.
I love looking at printed music,its so beautiful, and even make up stuff in my head, there are ideas for symphonies and all sorts in there,but I wouldn't have a clue how to write them down.
I would love to learn to play an instrument and maybe take a course in theory,perhaps when I retire.
At the moment though there just isn't the time.
This forum is my musical education and I thank all the wonderful contributors on here for sharing their knowledge with musical numpties such as me.

We all have things to offer and things to learn.

The only thing I really worry about, music wise, is missing out on the good stuff. But luckily, this forum is a never ending source of inspiration, recommendation , temptation, and education, so there's no excuse for not continuing on a joyous journey.

I have learned a huge amount about British music from you,ER, so I'm on the side of the numpties !

[Andrew Preview]

It's time available which is the main thing, isn't it?

That's certainly a large part of it. If I spent any significant amount of time, say, learning an instrument, that would be less time (of which there is already too little) listening to music! Perhaps when I retire...?

The other issue is Caliban's point about not wanting to demystify music too much. Like FF and EA, I do enjoy reading programme notes etc. (preferably before listening), but that falls some way short of really studying a piece.

[JFLL]

I guess anybody can enjoy a walk in the countryside, but a botanist will "see" more

or is that the wrong analogy ?

But I wonder whether the botanist (or zoologist, or even landscape archaeologist) will see more of what’s beautiful, what’s of value aesthetically? He or she may do, but not qua botanist, zoologist, ... ?

[french frank]

But I wonder whether the botanist (or zoologist, or even landscape archaeologist) will see more of what’s beautiful, what’s of value aesthetically? He or she may do, but not qua botanist, zoologist, ... ?

To continue with that analogy: if you take a strong hand lens with you, you will see amazing things - but you don't have to be a botanist to buy a hand lens.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

To continue with that analogy: if you take a strong hand lens with you, you will see amazing things - but you don't have to be a botanist to buy a hand lens.

And, to continue further: the more you know of botany, the more you will know what these "amazing things" are, how they work and why they're there (and have to be there and can't be anywhere else) - and it becomes ever more amazing.