Mahler: Symphony No.5

[richardfinegold]

So, would I be right in thinking that Mahler stopped being recorded after about 1980! Don’t get me wrong, some of these ancient recordings are amongst my favourites too – the live Tennstedt for sure, although I find Lenny’s VPO a bit ponderous at times and not that well recorded, but there must be a few more modern versions that people enjoy. The ones that I listen to the most are Inbal’s idiosyncratic Frankfurter recording on Denon and Chailly’s with the RCO, both of which have superb modern sound, as does Shipway’s much neglected but rather fine RPO version on their own label. I also have Rattle’s divisive BPO 5th version with its controlled brass and lovely string playing and an interestingly lush version by Saraste. The boxed set version by Bertini aint half bad and the Kondrashin M5 has crackingly raucous horns in the to be expected Russian fashion. The ones that I’d say stay away from are those by Zinman, Gatti and Dohnanyi, which don’t seem to add much to my listening experience.

Interestingly this was the first Mahler that I really got to love and, last year, I am a bit ashamed to say, it was the first that I had the pleasure of hearing live – The BBC Phil under Mena at the Bridgewater Hall, and I wasn’t disappointed one bit. I do envy all you Octogenarians who remember well a proms concert with such and such in 1964!

The standard of Mahler playing has gotten very high indeed in the last 3 decades or so. It seems like every Orchestra in the world releases a Mahler cycle now.
I think that the interest with Mahler interpreters such as Bruno Walter or Klemperer or Horenstein or Bernstein is that they either worked directly with Mahler or with his closest associates. They also kept the flame alive for the 50 years or so that it took Mahler's music to become more than just an occasional curio on a symphony program.
This is not to say that their interpretations are more "correct" than other conductors. Mahler is a composer who can be interpreted in many different ways and still sound fascinating. My preference runs towards Walter and Bernstein, but I have many (far to many!) other conductors in my collection as well. Haitink and Barbirolli, for example, are as different from those two conductors as possible, but they also make the music sound fascinating.

[richardfinegold]

Not everything gets worse, WB.
Back in the day, if you wanted to buy a set of Mahler Symphonies, you needed to negotiate easy terms with the local vinyl baron, borrow a morris Oxford to get them home, and then start saving for a gramophone to play them on.

Edit: Back on topic, I have an anonymous tape of a version of #5. Would be interesting to know who it is.....

If anybody was that interested , and expert enough , I could copy it and post it to them !!

I think there is a website that recognizes wave forms and will idneitfy it for you. That was how the bogus "Joyce Hatto" recordings were discovered.

[richardfinegold]

No-one has mentioned Karajan yet. Richard Osborne was fairly dismissive about his recording of the 5th calling it (from memory) 'an expert run-through' but I think it is a good deal better than that. However, we are badly in need of recordings of Karajan's live Mahler which was something else again. I particularly recall R3 broadcasts of the 5th and 6th from Salzburg in 1978. My off-air tapes went long ago, alas, and I am surprised that these haven't resurfaced as commercial releases.

Karajan's 5th was the first that I purchased. I had his 6th as well. The music didn't click with me then; it took listening to a few other versions before that happened. I haven't listened to vonK in the 5th for years. This probably says more about me than it does about Karajan.

[richardfinegold]

Or Sinopoli. I bought it in the charity shop today for 50p, but haven't heard it yet. Is it awful? (I also got the Szell Mahler 4 also for 50p., which they say isn't awful at all.]

The Sinopoli is awful, and the Szell may be the best Mahler recording ever issued.

[Julien Sorel]

The Sinopoli is awful, and the Szell may be the best Mahler recording ever issued.

I don't think Sinopoli is awful. I don't think Norrington is awful, either. Both are highly individual performances. I don't like either of the Bernstein recordings.

Gielen's is probably my favourite. Boulez is good, too. IMVHO, of course.

Szell's Mahler 4 is the most overrated recording of anything, ever. IMEMVHO, of course.

[JFLL]

The Sinopoli is awful, and the Szell may be the best Mahler recording ever issued.

Then I must listen to it forthwith – the Sinopoli, that is. I can never resist an underdog.

[richardfinegold]

Then I must listen to it forthwith – the Sinopoli, that is. I can never resist an underdog.

The man should have stuck to practicing Psychiatry.

[richardfinegold]

No-one has mentioned Karajan yet. Richard Osborne was fairly dismissive about his recording of the 5th calling it (from memory) 'an expert run-through' but I think it is a good deal better than that. However, we are badly in need of recordings of Karajan's live Mahler which was something else again. I particularly recall R3 broadcasts of the 5th and 6th from Salzburg in 1978. My off-air tapes went long ago, alas, and I am surprised that these haven't resurfaced as commercial releases.

I blew the dust off of my Karajan recording and just had a listen. The Orchestral playing is stunning; I know that should be a given with Karajan and the BPO, but it needs to be remarked upon. The strings in the Adagietto are so beautiful that they should be an aspiration for all Orchestras in the future to emulate. Karajan misses some of the irony in III, but the first two movements are excellent. I think what may have prompted Osborne's comments were his treatment of V. The tempo is quite swift and fairly uniform for the whole movement. I did sort of get the feeling that Karajan wanted to get the piece over with and use remaining studio time to begin recording his biennial Beethoven Symphony Cycle. So a mixed review, then; a better finale would have made this one for the ages.
Karajan's 6th has always been my favorite

[Alain Maréchal]

I'm not a devoted disciple of Mahler, but this has always felt right to me. The orchestra is far from ideal, the recording neither, but the conductor seems to know how it should 'go'. The recording was much better served by an earlier Everest reissue in the mid 90s, if you can find it. It used to be available from Arkivmusic, but no longer.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-5-Gustav/dp/B001885BZW/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1362651680&sr=1-3

I often think that a personal connection with the music could outweigh many other considerations. For example - does it matter about the orchestra, the recording, or any other circumstances when Klemperer recorded the 2nd symphony? Whatever he says about it is surely worth hearing.

[Mahler's3rd]

I really like the John Barbirolli/New Philharmonia recording

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-5-Gustav/dp/B00002439L/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1362658757&sr=8-3-spell

& The Berlin Philharmonic With Simon Rattle

The DVD Recording from The Proms with The World Orchestra For Peace/Gergiev, is great

[Wensleydale Blue]

The man should have stuck to practicing Psychiatry.

Well, I think his Mahler 9th is pretty special - one I play at least once a month - and his disc of the 8th is the only one I have (outside of Inbal's and Bertini's boxed sets) which isn't saying much as I can't bare to listen to this symphony too often, not unless I want an early night anyway. As the GCMG says of Sinopoli's Mahler 4th he was "a conductor whose prodigious interlect and idiosyncratic ways could never entrirely mask that he was a good man and a wonderful musician". Fair summary I think.

[Petrushka]

Well, I think his Mahler 9th is pretty special - one I play at least once a month - and his disc of the 8th is the only one I have (outside of Inbal's and Bertini's boxed sets) which isn't saying much as I can't bare to listen to this symphony too often, not unless I want an early night anyway. As the GCMG says of Sinopoli's Mahler 4th he was "a conductor whose prodigious interlect and idiosyncratic ways could never entrirely mask that he was a good man and a wonderful musician". Fair summary I think.

Sinopoli's Mahler 8 is my second favourite after the Solti and has much to commend it, not least a fine line up of soloists. A badly under-rated recording that deserves better. I bought his 5th when it first came out and while I've not heard it for several years, awful is not my recollection at all. The GCMC summary is indeed a fair one.

[BBMmk2]

I think the DVD of Abbado withg the Lucerne Festival Orchestra, stratospheric!!

[Petrushka]

I think the DVD of Abbado withg the Lucerne Festival Orchestra, stratospheric!!

I've heard Abbado live in this symphony more times than I've heard any other conductor in a single work (though Haitink in Bruckner 7 must run it close) including, oddly enough, a 1981 performance with the LSO in Venice, just a few hours after visiting the Lido.

Only ever heard Haitink once live in this and that was as long ago as 1979 with the Concertgebouw and wonderfully coupled with Haydn 86 in what was an unforgettable evening.

[Flosshilde]

Did anyone listen to the Adagietto played by the SCO' under Ticciati last night? I meant to & forgot. I've heard RT conduct the RSAMD orchestra in Mahler's 6th & thought it pretty impressive, so it would be interesting to know what others thought of his Mahler.