Orchestration of String Quartets

[richardfinegold]

In the car the other day we turned on the radio and I had the disorienting experience of listening to a piece of music that I knew well but that was being performed with unfamiliar instrumentation. The music was Shostakovich Eighth String Quartet (his best known of the 15) apparently arranged for string orchestra (presumably the Barshai arrangement, but we arrived at our destination before the conclusion and I din't find out).
Some Quartet music sounds better in full astring orchestra guise. Barber's famous Adagio For Strings started as the middle movement of his Quartet and was expanded by the Composer at the behest of Toscanini. The slow movements of the borodin Second and the Tchaikovsky first also gain from such a treatment.
Most of the time such expansion seems to dilute the effect of powerful music, music that in Quartet guise seems to be straining to the limits of the players ability. Here I would place the Shostakovich Quartets, Beethoven (Grosse Fuge, Op. 131), and some Bartok conflations that I have heard.
I understand the desire to bring great music to a wider audience, but most of the time I think it is unsuccessful and diminishes the works.

[LeMartinPecheur]

In the car the other day we turned on the radio and I had the disorienting experience of listening to a piece of music that I knew well but that was being performed with unfamiliar instrumentation. The music was Shostakovich Eighth String Quartet (his best known of the 15) apparently arranged for string orchestra (presumably the Barshai arrangement, but we arrived at our destination before the conclusion and I din't find out).
Some Quartet music sounds better in full astring orchestra guise. Barber's famous Adagio For Strings started as the middle movement of his Quartet and was expanded by the Composer at the behest of Toscanini. The slow movements of the borodin Second and the Tchaikovsky first also gain from such a treatment.
Most of the time such expansion seems to dilute the effect of powerful music, music that in Quartet guise seems to be straining to the limits of the players ability. Here I would place the Shostakovich Quartets, Beethoven (Grosse Fuge, Op. 131), and some Bartok conflations that I have heard.
I understand the desire to bring great music to a wider audience, but most of the time I think it is unsuccessful and diminishes the works.

Quite agree with your last sentence rfg but would make fewer exceptions. Agree that the Barber adagio works well as a string-orch piece, but it still seems to me to change the nature (mood) of the piece greatly. In my experience the quartet version is far less grief-stricken, more striving, aspirational, affirmative.

One crucial thing about orchestrations, particularly those for string orch, is that it inevitably upsets the equal balance of the part-writing. Even with a double basses the cello part gets swamped, and even more so the viola. Perhaps this is a bit less of a problem in a movement like the Borodin Nottorno where much of the focus is on one cracking good tune?

I do have a CD of Beethoven Op131 and 133 from the IMS Prussia Cove Cornwall, played respectively 4 and 5 players to each part by many fine (then young) chamber musicians inc Marwood, Osostowicz, Hatfield, Tapping. Equal numbers does help the balance but the loss of fast responsiveness is still crippling IMHO, especially in Op131.

[Nick Armstrong]

I own this recording of Bernstein and the VPO playing the Beethoven Opp 131 and 135 http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Stri.../dp/B000001GGN

I haven't played it often. I tend to agree that chamber music inflated loses more than it gains.

I'm a sucker for Verklärte Nacht for 'big band' though, as opposed to sextet. (I'll never forget the sound of the Berlin Phil and Karajan playing it in the Festival Hall)

[Pabmusic]

I tend to agree with LeMartinPecheur. It very much depends on which quartet we're talking about. The more a quartet relies on the interplay of equal parts in complex counterpoint (a late Beethoven for example) the more difficult would it be to create a successful orchestration, and the further from the spirit of the original would it be, too. However, there are many quartets (and similar - I'm thinking of the Schubert Quintet) that are less reliant on part-writing, and they can sometimes be regarded as a sort of short score for a larger combination. But the orchestrator (and listener) must approach them as if they are something different from a chamber work.

I have had some experience of this, because I have orchestrated a few such works. The most successful has been Dvorak's "American" Quartet (orchestrated as the "American Sinfonietta"), which has been useful for amateur orchestras tired of trotting out the "New World".

[salymap]

The Borodin 2nd quartet seems to have been arranged in various ways and doesn't itappearin 'Kismet' ?

[BBMmk2]

I saw that recording on youtube, a couple pof days ago Cali, and I think the wasy lenny rehearsed the VPO, on that occaision, showed through the recording. IE, he rehearsed all of the musicians as individual string quartets, to begin with and then as a whole after. Made sense to me?

[Roehre]

There are succesful exceptions, and Pabmusic IMO rightly gives a clue why some of the arrangements are more succesful than others. Szell's Smetana 1 orchestration is sensational (Proms July 25th !), as is Pfitzner's own of his String quartet in c-sharp-minor op.36 into his Symphony opus 36a.
Shostakovich approved of Barshai's arrangements of 5 of his quartets, of which no.3 has been arranged for strings and winds. The quartets opus 110 and 118 IMO don't suffer from the multiple strings (there exists another arrangement of opus 110 which includes percussion, btw, which is not Barshai's)

Mahler's Beethoven Serioso and Death and the Maiden aren't bad either, but I'm doubtful re the Grosse Fuge (even when Karajan/BPO playing the work, and not happy with opus 131 (and Bernstein is not to blame for this). Hans Stadlmayer arranged and recorded the slow mvt from Schubert's Quintet, IMO rather succesful. Why? Exactly for the reason Pabmusic gives.

Recently I heard an arrangement of Mozart's clarinet quintet KV581 as clarinet concerto with string orchestra, which isn't bad, but it lacks the intimacy of the original. Brahms' Sextet opus 18 to the contrary sounds excellent in an orchestral disguise, as does (it has been mentioned already) Schönberg's Verklärte Nacht

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There isn't much "arrangement" needed to turn one into the other, though sometimes liberties are indeed taken.

[Nick Armstrong]

There are succesful exceptions, and Pabmusic IMO rightly gives a clue why some of the arrangements are more succesful than others. Szell's Smetana 1 orchestration is sensational (Proms July 25th !), as is Pfitzner's own of his String quartet in c-sharp-minor op.36 into his Symphony opus 36a.
Shostakovich approved of Barshai's arrangements of 5 of his quartets, of which no.3 has been arranged for strings and winds. The quartets opus 110 and 118 IMO don't suffer from the multiple strings (there exists another arrangement of opus 110 which includes percussion, btw, which is not Barshai's)

Mahler's Beethoven Serioso and Death and the Maiden aren't bad either, but I'm doubtful re the Grosse Fuge (even when Karajan/BPO playing the work, and not happy with opus 131 (and Bernstein is not to blame for this). Hans Stadlmayer arranged and recorded the slow mvt from Schubert's Quintet, IMO rather succesful. Why? Exactly for the reason Pabmusic gives.

Recently I heard an arrangement of Mozart's clarinet quintet KV581 as clarinet concerto with string orchestra, which isn't bad, but it lacks the intimacy of the original. Brahms' Sextet opus 18 to the contrary sounds excellent in an orchestral disguise, as does (it has been mentioned already) Schönberg's Verklärte Nacht

Talking of Arnold, I also love what he did to Brahms's G minor Piano Quartet I always hear the orchestral version in my mind's ear when I'm listening to the original...(I miss the xylo & glock! )

[BBMmk2]

Talking of Arnold, I also love what he did to Brahms's G minor Piano Quartet I always hear the orchestral version in my mind's ear when I'm listening to the original...(I miss the xylo & glock! )

AS's arrangment is sensational beyond words!

[Sir Velo]

Brahms' Sextet opus 18 to the contrary sounds excellent in an orchestral disguise, as does (it has been mentioned already) Schönberg's Verklärte Nacht

One might add Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms' Op. 25 Piano Quartet to the mix.

[Nick Armstrong]

One might add Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms' Op. 25 Piano Quartet to the mix.

I had!

(The perils of cross-posting!)

[Roehre]

Talking of Arnold, I also love what he did to Brahms's G minor Piano Quartet I always hear the orchestral version in my mind's ear when I'm listening to the original...(I miss the xylo & glock! )

...and the bass clarinet

[Roehre]

There isn't much "arrangement" needed to turn one into the other, though sometimes liberties are indeed taken.

With the addition of other than strings "arrangement"/"addition" is unavoidable I think.
But it's interesting to see what Mahler's "arrangements" look like.
For both the Beethoven and the Schubert multiple strings arrangements he simply used the study scores and scribbled some extra notes where the bass line had to be strengthened, indicating that apart from these additions, the double basses were to play colla parte. Where not all of the other strings were, he simply indicated by writing "solo" or a number of strings which he required.

Not much of an arrangement there therefore....

Btw, recently (2007) a nice full-orchestral version of Death and the Maiden by Andy Stein was published and recorded.
Very tastefully done IMO, as Death and maiden Symphony

[makropulos]

Not sure if anybody has mentioned Walton's Symphony for Strings (arr of his quartet) which I think is quite successful, or some of Richard Tognetti's string orchestra versions of pieces like Janacek's String Quartet No. 1.

I'd certainly agree with Roehre that one of the most interesting is Szell's orchestration of Smetana's From my Life.