What price Hindemith now?

[vinteuil]

Hindemith has a reputation for being a rather arid composer, but it really isn't so. To my mind, it's Reger who deserves that title.
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Odd how many people link Reger with Hindemith, and usually to point out the aridness of one or the other.

And yet I find great fun in both. Hindemith most obviously with things like his 'Overture to the Flying Dutchman as played at sight by a second-rate Concert Orchestra at the Village Well at 7 o' clock in the morning" - but those who think that Reger is arid should sample his piano duet arrangements of the Brandeburg Concertos (marvellous performances by the Speidel/Trenkner duo on dabringhaus und grimm) - enormous fun, really life-enhancing.

[Ferretfancy]

Odd how many people link Reger with Hindemith, and usually to point out the aridness of one or the other.

And yet I find great fun in both. Hindemith most obviously with things like his 'Overture to the Flying Dutchman as played at sight by a second-rate Concert Orchestra at the Village Well at 7 o' clock in the morning" - but those who think that Reger is arid should sample his piano duet arrangements of the Brandeburg Concertos (marvellous performances by the Speidel/Trenkner duo on dabringhaus und grimm) - enormous fun, really life-enhancing.

Your comment about Reger and the Brandenburgs does rather remind me of Beecham's quip about Vaughan Williams -"Ah yes! The Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis.
Unfortunately in his other compositions he did not include a theme by Thomas Tallis ! "

[LeMartinPecheur]

One of my favourites is the symphony Mathis der Maler, especially in Karajan's early recording for EMI.

The opening of the Mathis der Maler symphony always tells me that PH learnt a lot from RVW

Seriously though, I love a very few PH works like Mathis, the Konzertmusik for brass & strings, the Weber Symph Metamorphoses but an awful lot just passes me by. Years ago 'When Lilacs last' sounded like a work I would fall for bigtime, I got the Shaw recording recommended above by Suffolkcoastal but...zilch Similarly with the 2nd Decca Blomstedt anthology with Symphonia Serena and Harmonie der Welt.

Do quite like the organ sonatas and am still tring hard with the Kammermusiks. One work I that I was quite impressed with live (despite the poor soloist having a massive 'mare) was the Harp Sonata.

[richardfinegold]

As a lover of quite a few of Hindemith's works, I am astonished by this. Do so few musicians like his music nowadays? Are concert promoters all scared stiff of its box office potential? Even if he is not the major figure he was once thought to be, is his best music not as good as much of (say) Prokofiev's?

No. It isn't. Prokofiev's masterpieces could fill several hours of concert programs. Outside of Symphonic Metamorphis...etc, Mathis, Trauerode, and the Concertmusic for Brass and Strings, Hindemith's music simply doesn't offer much for the average listener. Hindy wrote nothing on a par with Romeo and Juliet, the Classical Symphony, or any of the 5 Prok Piano Concertos, or even Peter and The Wolf. (or Scythian Suite, Lt. Kije, Nevsky, the last 3 Piano Sonatas...)

This is not to dismiss Hindemith entirely. I really do enjoy all of the works I listed above (I actually enjoy all 4 movements of metamorphosis), but I found that as I delved deeper into his oeuvre, I didn't find anything that appealed to me. He did write very well about music.

[Sir Velo]

Works of Hindemith's which I consider to offer a good introduction to his output:
-sinfonietta op.4
-any of the symphonies (Mathis der Maler, Serena, Harmonie der Welt, in B-flat, in E-flat)
-any of his concertos (cello, piano [4 Temperaments], violin [Oistrakh-recording e.g.], Horn i.a.)
-his Konzertmusiken for a whole range of orchestras (brass band, wind band, symphony orchestra, chamber orchestra et al)
-the Kammermusik opp.24 and 36 (chamber concertos in all but name: i.a. viola, cello, piano, organ with small orchestra)
-his 7 string quartets, including the very humorous Minimax (a brilliant persiflage of "popular" orchestral music)
-operas like Matis der Maler and the scandalous Sancta Suzanna
-the sonatas for piano with iirc every orchestral instrument, including trumpet, double bass and heckelphon
-the Mass (one of his very last works)
-Requiem for those we love (on texts by Walt Whitman)

Have you excluded the Symphonic Metamorphoses because you do not consider it to be representative of his output, or because you do not consider it to be a good piece? To my mind, it is clearly the most immediately accessible of his large scale orchestral works.

The Konzertmusik for Brass & Strings is an exceedingly fine work. I would recommend playing it or Harmonie der Welt blind to anyone who thinks they don't like Hindemith. They might just revise their opinion.

[Barbirollians]

I am afraid that as much as I have tried I have obtained very little enjoyment from his music outside the old Decca CD that contains Oistrakh's extraordinary performance of his Violin Concerto , Abbado's Symphonic Metamorpheses and Kletzki's Mathis .

Just find the rest of what I have heard dull .

[Roehre]

Have you excluded the Symphonic Metamorphoses because you do not consider it to be representative of his output, or because you do not consider it to be a good piece? To my mind, it is clearly the most immediately accessible of his large scale orchestral works.

The Konzertmusik for Brass & Strings is an exceedingly fine work. I would recommend playing it or Harmonie der Welt blind to anyone who thinks they don't like Hindemith. They might just revise their opinion.

Neither, just forgot to mention it. It's an excellent and very enjoyable, even jolly piece.

[rauschwerk]

No. It isn't. Prokofiev's masterpieces could fill several hours of concert programs.

That, I fear, is not an answer to my question. Let me rephrase it.

Is Hindemith's best opera (concerto, symphony, chamber music etc) as good as Prokofiev's best opera (concerto, symphony, chamber music etc)?

For example, I certainly consider that Hindemith's 1939 fiddle concerto is as good as either of Prokofiev's, whatever the average listener might think. But then I'm not terribly interested in the average listener. I'm with Charles Rosen (can't find exact quote) when he says that a work which a hundred people love passionately is more significant than one which ten thousand people don't mind hearing.

I was interested to discover from the Grove article that when Hindemith settled in the USA his works were virtually unknown there, but it was not long before they were played more than the works of any composer living in the USA (that, if true, is pretty staggering given that one of those was Rachmaninov).

Perhaps Hindemith, who thought of himself first and foremost as a musician pure and simple, was destined to be a kind of 20th century Telemann, the value of whose work we are only now beginning to rediscover centuries later?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Perhaps Hindemith, who thought of himself first and foremost as a musician pure and simple, was destined to be a kind of 20th century Telemann, the value of whose work we are only now beginning to rediscover centuries later?

This is exactly how I think of Hindemith, rauschy - an equivalent in my affections to Telemann or Goehr: I enjoy their work when I hear it (and I heard quite a lot of it as a student thanks to two very keen Hindemithians) and certainly can't hear any of the "dullness" others have mentioned. But my eyes don't light up at the thought of a Hindemith (/Telemann/Goehr) piece as they do at the prospect of hearing Schönberg or Stravinsky or Varese (/Bach/Handel/Purcell; /Birtwistle/Davies). Hindemith is, to my regret, a composer "I don't mind hearing" rather than "loving passionately". Sorry. (No, really: I wish I shared your commitment and dedication.)

[Roehre]

I am afraid that as much as I have tried I have obtained very little enjoyment from his music outside the old Decca CD that contains Oistrakh's extraordinary performance of his Violin Concerto , Abbado's Symphonic Metamorphoses and Kletzki's Mathis .

Just find the rest of what I have heard dull .

I've written this before, but I really do think that there are composers whose music is difficult to export. The great British composers -even Elgar, Vaughan williams and Britten- are hardly known and/or appreciated on the continent - when played, most of the time British performers or conductors are involved. Reger, Hindemith, Hartmann, to some extent Fauré, Saint Saens, Pierné, are not or hardly well known on these isles.
Hasn't got anything to do with the quality of the music. Has to do with something rather undefiniable as "localism".
This effectively means that works are not played much because of their "foreign tasting", and therefore this "unusual" taste doesn't become more well-known, leading to even fewer performances.

Sometimes a snowball effect sets in, as happened with Mahler's symphonic output from the 1960s and Nielsen from the 1980s onwards.
But Mahler, Bruckner, Sibelius or Nielsen are not as well known and appreciated in e.g. France as they are either in Britain or in Germany (Haitink's recording of Mahler 6 with the orchestra of Radio France from 2 or 3 years ago (IIRC) is no match for the Concertgebouw, Berlin Phil or Chicago recordings, due to the orchestra being relatively inexperienced in Mahler )
You hardly do hear Tchaikovsky in Italy.

So it is something else than the sheer quality of the music which defines the appreciation of composers from abroad.

[gurnemanz]

I acquired the Marienleben Lieder Rilke settings in the recent 4CD Glenn Gould Hindemith piano collection. They are doubtless of fringe interest but are certainly well worth getting to know and essential listening for Lieder fans.

There is a free flac download of two LP versions here

A new recording with Soile Isokoski now seems to be the one to get.

[Stanfordian]

I am afraid that as much as I have tried I have obtained very little enjoyment from his music outside the old Decca CD that contains Oistrakh's extraordinary performance of his Violin Concerto , Abbado's Symphonic Metamorpheses and Kletzki's Mathis .

Just find the rest of what I have heard dull .

Hello Barbirollians,

I tend to agree with you that the Symphonic Metamorpheses and Mathis de Maler are his best works by some distance. I always think John Williams must have known the Symphonic Metamorpheses when he wrote his Indian Jones main theme.

[EdgeleyRob]

I have no music by Hindemith in my collection,I am ashamed to say.
I just don't ever seem to have got round to listening to any of it.

[Bryn]

I have no music by Hindemith in my collection,I am ashamed to say.
I just don't ever seem to have got round to listening to any of it.

I went a bit mad on Hindemith a few years ago and got these:













and others.

I must admit that I have yet to listen to some of the content, but find each spin a worthwhile musical experience.

I have a particular soft spot for the 1940 Cello Concerto (the source of the theme for Walton's Variations on a Theme by Hindemith).