2 pianos on stage. What is the best set up?

[Hornspieler]

I am not a pianist, but last evening's concert from Birmingham aroused my curiousity as to how the audio output from a concerto for two (or more) pianos is best achieved. So here are a few questions:

i) I assume that the instruments must be of the same make and size?

ii) Should the two concert grands be dovetailed, so that the soloists face each other?

iii) Am I right in assuming that both lids must be removed completely?

iv) Should the pianos be (a) individually miked or (b) given one stereo microphone to cover both instruments?

v) In the case of (b) above, should the left/right inputs be panned outwards to separate the two soloists?

The bandleader Victor Silvester (no relation to the cat) had two pianists in his orchestra; playing on huge grand pianos, sitting as far apart as was possible on the stage and they seemed to play well enough together. What would be the effect of copying Rossini's set up in his string serenades? (1st fiddles on the left, 2nd fiddles on the right)

It might work very well for last night's Mozart concerto, but I rather think not for the Poulenc.

I seem to remember playing that Mozart concerto in the dim distant past and also a Beethoven concerto for three pianos (or was it four?)

There must surely be a problem for the Audio mixer which would not be evident to the live audience?

Good morning all.

HS

[Sir Velo]

Don't know anything about the Beethoven but WAM composed concertos for two and three pianos (the latter, the so-called "Lodron",K242 for three musical ladies of his acquaintance). There are also parts for four pianos in Les Noces, of course.

[Flay]

I assume that the instruments must be of the same make and size?

Why? Would you demand that of any other type of instrumental duo?

[salymap]

Surely they are usually dovetailed if the work is for 2 pianos. Over 60 years ago I remember one performance at the RAH of a Bach Concerto for FOUR keyboards.
It was played inappropriately on four large concert grands. Although only accompanied by strings I remember the chaos on the platform, but can't remember the final solution reached.
There was also a problem backstage as the four young women soloists had pretty dresses buttoned down the back, which caused a bit of back stage delay, I gather.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Why? Would you demand that of any other type of instrumental duo?

Often players do. The VPO insists on its stringed instruments being from the same manufacturer. I understand that the LSO oboists use Howarth models.

[Mr Pee]

Often players do. The VPO insists on its stringed instruments being from the same manufacturer. I understand that the LSO oboists use Howarth models.

I'm not sure about Oboes, but I can certainly imagine that if one clarinettist was using,say, a Howarth clarinet and the other a Buffet R13, that would create potential problems with different tone colours and idiosyncrasies of intonation, the Howarth being quite a wide-bore clarinet and the Buffet on the narrow side. They're not issues that any professional musician shouldn't be able to overcome, but life would certainly be simpler if the instuments were the same. I am still absolutely certain that the only reason I never made into the Berlin Philharmonic is that they require their players to use German System clarinets. Their loss......

As for the VPO, I know that they have specific requirements for certain instruments- Oboes and Horns spring to mind- but Strings? I've never heard that before. Does that mean that a player can only audition for the Staatsoper/VPO if he plays an instrument from a specific manufacturer? Or if they pass the audition do they have to ditch an instrument they may have been playing for many years and get a new one? That sounds bizarre- and it must limit their number of potential members. "Former Concertmaster of the BPO? Forget it mate, you play the wrong make of Violin!"

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The VPO stringed instruments are actually owned by the orchestra.

[Ferretfancy]

Back in 1960s at the Royal Albert Hall, there was a performance of the complete Hexameron Variations with no less than eight concert grands on the platform! All the pianists came on stage wearing scarlet lined cloaks, and removed their white gloves with a flourish as they sat down to play. I can't remember who they all were, but I know that David Wilde was among them, and a very young Howard Shelley
As to the music, the sections by lesser composers like Pixis were a bit dull, but Liszt came off well!

[amateur51]

Back in 1960s at the Royal Albert Hall, there was a performance of the complete Hexameron Variations with no less than eight concert grands on the platform! All the pianists came on stage wearing scarlet lined cloaks, and removed their white gloves with a flourish as they sat down to play. I can't remember who they all were, but I know that David Wilde was among them, and a very young Howard Shelley
As to the music, the sections by lesser composers like Pixis were a bit dull, but Liszt came off well!

Shura Cherkassky must have been there, surely?

[Tony Halstead]

Back in 1960s at the Royal Albert Hall, there was a performance of the complete Hexameron Variations with no less than eight concert grands on the platform! All the pianists came on stage wearing scarlet lined cloaks, and removed their white gloves with a flourish as they sat down to play. I can't remember who they all were, but I know that David Wilde was among them, and a very young Howard Shelley
As to the music, the sections by lesser composers like Pixis were a bit dull, but Liszt came off well!

I do remember playing in that concert, in July 1972.

MTT was the conductor and there were actually SIX ( Hex...!) grands, played by David Wilde, Ronald Lumsden, Howard Shelley, Martin Hughes, Thomas Walsh and John Bingham.

[amateur51]

I do remember playing in that concert, in July 1972.

MTT was the conductor and there were actually SIX ( Hex...!) grands, played by David Wilde, Ronald Lumsden, Howard Shelley, Martin Hughes, Thomas Walsh and John Bingham.

Bravo, waldhorn!

Shura must've been out of town that night

[Zucchini]

Look at a few 2 piano performances on Youtube, Hornspieler and you'll have your answers.

[Ferretfancy]

I do remember playing in that concert, in July 1972.

MTT was the conductor and there were actually SIX ( Hex...!) grands, played by David Wilde, Ronald Lumsden, Howard Shelley, Martin Hughes, Thomas Walsh and John Bingham.

Thanks for that, Waldhorn ! To be brutally honest, my memory of everything except the Hexameron is a bit hazy. I seem to remember that it was compered by Anthony Hopkins, but that may have been another occasion.

[MrGongGong]

I am not a pianist, but last evening's concert from Birmingham aroused my curiousity as to how the audio output from a concerto for two (or more) pianos is best achieved.

Given that I am currently at an electroacoustic music festival
I would say that the perfect location would be spinning round the audiences heads one clockwise and the other anti

(which is an effect similar to one i've just heard in a piece in the dark in a hall with a multi channel diffusion system

[Mr Pee]

Given that I am currently at an electroacoustic music festival
I would say that the perfect location would be spinning round the audiences heads one clockwise and the other anti
:

Probably not the most practical suggestion we've had on this subject.