German Baroque Music

[BBMmk2]

This is probably a far reaching tiot;le and may need top be rather narrower. But I have been playing Heinrich ignaz Biber's music recently,,ore precisely his Vespro della Beate Virgine'. I havnt played this for a long time and made me realise what a fine composer this man was.

[ardcarp]

Hello BBM! Not quite sure why this is under CD Review (have I missed something?) and, yes, German Baroque is arguably as wide as the Universe itself.

But I spotted the 'Biber' bit. Come on now. Lets have a good discussion about Heinrich. He was an amazing, original and prolific composer. His Missa Sancti Henrici (of which I did the first...probably...performance in the UK about 15 years ago in Sherborne Abbey) is scored as follows:

SSATB choir
SSATB soloists
2 violins, 3 violas and basso continuo
5-part trumpet 'choir'
3 posaunen

HB uses the strings, brass and choirs in huge blocks of sound. Very impressive. But the trumpet 'choir' was fascinating, consisting of two clarini (high trumpets) two of normal pitch and one of 16' pitch. The latter does not exist, and Crispian Steele Perkins, who was not only playing but 'fixing' the group insisted that it would be cheating to use another trombone. So we had a 16' trumpet made specially (curled round of course...not a straight one!) which we called 'Fladdergross' after some reference to a war trumpet in German literature. It was spine-chilling.

Then you've got Biber's violin works, especially the Mystery or Rosary Sonatas some of which use scordatura tuning. Charles Burney apparently knew of these and declared Biber to be the greatest violin composer of the 17th century.

I've rambled and reminisced enough...time for someone else to have a go.

[Nick Armstrong]

Hello BBM! Not quite sure why this is under CD Review

I have taken the liberty, BBM

[ardcarp]

Thanks, Calibs. Hope BBM can still find it/us.

[richardfinegold]

This is probably a far reaching tiot;le and may need top be rather narrower. But I have been playing Heinrich ignaz Biber's music recently,,ore precisely his Vespro della Beate Virgine'. I havnt played this for a long time and made me realise what a fine composer this man was.

If Biber inspired this thread, then perhaps it should be called "Austrian Baroque Music"

[richardfinegold]

This is probably a far reaching tiot;le and may need top be rather narrower. But I have been playing Heinrich ignaz Biber's music recently,,ore precisely his Vespro della Beate Virgine'. I havnt played this for a long time and made me realise what a fine composer this man was.

I assume that you are looking for composers somewhat outside of the usual Bach (family)/Handel/Teleman orbit?
Try Buxtehude, Fasch, Pisandel, and my favorite,Jan Dismas Zelenka. Now the latter was technically a Bohemian who worked in Poland for many years before he ended up in Dresden, but Germany has invaded Poland and Bohemia often enough to make him an Honorary German Baroque Composer.

[ardcarp]

If Biber inspired this thread, then perhaps it should be called "Austrian Baroque Music"

Biber indeed spent his important years at Salzburg, but he was

Born in the small Bohemian town of Wartenberg

(thanks, Wiki)

Can you give us a quick run-down of geopolitical entities in the 1600s, r-f-g ?

[BBMmk2]

Cali, admin can the tit;e be chanmged to Austrian, my fault thinking Biber was German!!

I am thinking of out of the way composers that duly deserve more attentiomn!

Thank you Cali for moving thread to correct place!!

[Thropplenoggin]

Great thread, BBM. You inspired me to check out 'Vespro della Beate Virgine'. I only possess Biber's Mystery Sonatas. They really are unique and don't sound like anything else I've heard to date, especially not Bach, which surprised me. Much freer, unconstrained by form, one almost gets the sense of a fiddle player riffing!

I also stream his masses on occasion. Jordi Savall's version of Biber's Requiem à 15 In Concerto starts with the most stunning Funeral March (http://player.qobuz.com/#!/track/1193267) The 'Introitus' and 'Kyrie' are utterly ravishing. A beautiful work worth investigating (and one I really must purchase!)

I have also recently begun to discover Buxtehude and can commend the Seven Sonatas, Op.1 on Naxos, featuring a 'dream team' of John Holloway, Jaap ter Linden and Lars Ulrik Mortensen.

[Demetrius]

In the 1600s both Bohemia and Austria were very much part of Germany, Bohemia as on of the 7 electors of the Kaiser, Austria as the usual origin of the elected Kaiser. Wartenberg back then had a German population, which Biber most likely was part of. I suspect he would have considered himself as a German, if asked. Good chance that he would have added that he stems from the best parts of it, though. Politically, those connections are long gone and (hopefully) won't return. Historically they did exist, so German Baroque is as correct as Austrian Baroque.

But I spotted the 'Biber' bit. Come on now. Lets have a good discussion about Heinrich. He was an amazing, original and prolific composer. His Missa Sancti Henrici (of which I did the first...probably...performance in the UK about 15 years ago in Sherborne Abbey) is scored as follows:

SSATB choir
SSATB soloists
2 violins, 3 violas and basso continuo
5-part trumpet 'choir'
3 posaunen

HB uses the strings, brass and choirs in huge blocks of sound. Very impressive. But the trumpet 'choir' was fascinating, consisting of two clarini (high trumpets) two of normal pitch and one of 16' pitch. The latter does not exist, and Crispian Steele Perkins, who was not only playing but 'fixing' the group insisted that it would be cheating to use another trombone. So we had a 16' trumpet made specially (curled round of course...not a straight one!) which we called 'Fladdergross' after some reference to a war trumpet in German literature. It was spine-chilling.

Interesting! Was the performance recorded (or another using that instrument?)

[ardcarp]

Interesting! Was the performance recorded?

No. When you're paying pros a performance fee, it does not include recording. These days, I dare say an i-phone in someone's pocket could be used clandestinely, but not to make a commercially available product.

[ostuni]

3 posaunen

If I remember rightly, I was one of those... A fine noise, and I certainly remember GB and his Fladdergross.

[BBMmk2]

Great thread, BBM. You inspired me to check out 'Vespro della Beate Virgine'. I only possess Biber's Mystery Sonatas. They really are unique and don't sound like anything else I've heard to date, especially not Bach, which surprised me. Much freer, unconstrained by form, one almost gets the sense of a fiddle player riffing!

I also stream his masses on occasion. Jordi Savall's version of Biber's Requiem à 15 In Concerto starts with the most stunning Funeral March (http://player.qobuz.com/#!/track/1193267) The 'Introitus' and 'Kyrie' are utterly ravishing. A beautiful work worth investigating (and one I really must purchase!)

I have also recently begun to discover Buxtehude and can commend the Seven Sonatas, Op.1 on Naxos, featuring a 'dream team' of John Holloway, Jaap ter Linden and Lars Ulrik Mortensen.

Thropps, if you get the chance, the aforementioned Biber Requiem, is a certain must have, imo. I glad yuu have been inspired by his Vespers. I dont think you can compare them to the Monteverrdi settings?

[Richard Tarleton]

Another Biber fan here. Several recordings, I discovered HB via John Holloway's "Unam Ceylum" but now have Reinhard Goebel's Rosary Sonatas, Romanesca's Violin Sonatas.....

My German Baroque nomination is Silvius Leopold Weiss, contemporary of Bach who wrote exclusively for the Baroque lute and whose compositions therefore disappeared off the radar for 200 years, along with the Baroque lute. His Tombeau sur la Mort de M. Comte de Logy has been a favourite in the guitar repertoire for half a century, look out also for his Tombeau sur la Mort de M Cajetan Baron d'Hartig - on the Baroque lute, a piece charged with real grief.

Robert Barto has been recording the suites on Naxos for a while now and has reached vol. 10 - dive in anywhere, but vols 1,5 and 10 all good places to start (5 includes the Logy Tombeau, 10 Baron Hartig). He knew Bach and son WF Bach.

[Thropplenoggin]

Thropps, if you get the chance, the aforementioned Biber Requiem, is a certain must have, imo. I glad yuu have been inspired by his Vespers. I dont think you can compare them to the Monteverrdi settings?

Alas, BBM, I have been unable to locate Biber's Vespers. I was looking on the streaming site, Qobuz, but no joy thus far. Which recording do you have?