Ahem!

[hmvman]

Interesting little discussion on R4's "Today" programme about coughing in concerts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21241711

It's the last item on the page (08.44), spoiled a bit by Evan Davis' unnecessary giggling.

I do share Susan Tomes' opinion that some coughers seem remarkably unrestrained at concerts.

[french frank]

Actually, we don't know what mirthful proceedings had been going on behind the scenes, but it was a bit unnerving to hear someone laughing at a straightforward subject. I think Susan Tomes might be right that people feel uneasy and tense when there isn't some ambient noise going on just around them and the music gets very quiet. I suppose when it's loud you wouldn't hear the coughs anyway.

At least we get the performer's view: I wonder what she would feel to have Max Hole jumping about and shouting. Or what she feels about rustlings and whispers or people swaying about.

[Ferretfancy]

Most coughing seems to happen in quieter passages because the listeners stop paying attention and fail to concentrate on the musical argument. This confirms Beecham's statement that the English don't like music, but they like the sound that it makes.

It's an unfortunate truth that a large percentage of any audience are not fully committed. This is very noticeable in America where the need to seem cultured looms large. Wives sign up for concert series and drag there unfortunate husbands along

If you are going to need to stand for a couple of hours, the chances are that you are really there for the music. I'm not saying that there are no coughers in the Arena for the Proms, but there are fewer of them than in the rest of the hall. I think that inconsiderate behaviour in all its forms has increased, people forget that they are not at home watching TV or listening to the Hi-Fi.

This subject will return in about mid July, at a guess.

[teamsaint]

I only heard a trailer, but even on that there was some nonsense talked. Somebody suggested that you can always stifle a cough, which as far as I am aware is simply not true.

Take a proms concert, 5000 (?) people, 2 hours. Even if the little tickles are suppressed, there are still going to be the quite a few coughs, and just a few can seem very annoying over the course of a symphony.
I always take a bottle of water in (if I remember) just in case...but I only drink if its essential to stifle a cough..

[hmvman]

I vaguely recall years ago that the RFH and QE Hall concert programmes had a note about coughing and giving the approximate sound levels, in decibels, of an unsuppressed cough and one suppressed with a handkerchief held over the mouth. At any rate it would seem only good manners - not to mention hygiene - that if a cough cannot be contained it should be suppressed with, at the very least, a hand.

I wonder if the urge to cough in quiet moments is brought on in some people subconsciously by the knowledge that it's the wrong time to do it. A bit like when you know there aren't any toilets available on a journey the need for one somehow seems greater!

[Petrushka]

Somebody suggested that you can always stifle a cough, which as far as I am aware is simply not true.

Unless you have an illness I would say this is true.

I have attended concerts since 1972 and I can honestly say that I have never once coughed during the music. I once attended a Prom (LPO/Haitink 1986) when I had a truly terrible cough and cold, probably shouldn't have gone really, but the success I had in not coughing on that occasion can be judged by everybody as that concert (Shostakovich 10) is now on the LPO label!

It's a fact of life, I'm afraid, that in a hall like the RAH with a 6000 capacity, there will always be coughers. My own theory is that interval ice creams are responsible for throat irritations and should not be sold at a classical concert. Is there any medical evidence to back this up?

[Flosshilde]

I only heard a trailer, but even on that there was some nonsense talked. Somebody suggested that you can always stifle a cough, which as far as I am aware is simply not true.

Take a proms concert, 5000 (?) people, 2 hours. Even if the little tickles are suppressed, there are still going to be the quite a few coughs, and just a few can seem very annoying over the course of a symphony.

It can be muffled with a handkerchief. Unfortunately most young people (& many older) don't carry handkerchiefs.

I always take a bottle of water in (if I remember) just in case...but I only drink if its essential to stifle a cough..

Sitting next to someone continually swigging from a bottle can be just as irritating.

(My worst experience was last week at A Midsummer Night's Dream - I was between a cougher & a chatterer )

[teamsaint]

It can be muffled with a handkerchief. Unfortunately most young people (& many older) don't carry handkerchiefs.



Sitting next to someone continually swigging from a bottle can be just as irritating.

(My worst experience was last week at A Midsummer Night's Dream - I was between a cougher & a chatterer )

you are quite right about endless bottle swigging..which is why I use it for emergencies only .

Are you sure you weren't accidentally in the middle of the set of a staged setting of A Midsummer Nights dream?

[Ferretfancy]

I can sympathise with those who are forced to try to suppress a cough, there are nice people who even leave the hall rather than upset their neighbours. However the majority of coughers are simply careless and inconsiderate, and I would include programme shufflers in that category. So often the person in front of you or next to you has been chatting away quite happily to their companion before the concert, and immediately start consulting their programme just as the music starts.

The other awful plague, and sadly this does happen at the Proms, is the assistant conductor in the audience who waves his arms, and always out of time!

[french frank]

The other awful plague, and sadly this does happen at the Proms, is the assistant conductor in the audience who waves his arms, and always out of time!

Yes, constant fidgeters of any kind are irritating. It's unfortunate that those who don't agree see this as a sign of the 'unwelcoming' snobbery of classical audiences. But as schoolchildren we were all quiet and attentive - much like being at a concert. It retrospect, it seems to me to have been part of our training.

But on coughing, if I had a real hacking cough I wouldn't go to a concertt ("Coughs and sneezes spread diseases, Trap them in your handkerchief" - to be sung to the beginning of Deutschland überalles, of course). Even when I do cough it's more of a quiet clearing of the throat and isn't essential.

[benb87]

You can tell when someone needs to cough and when they don't. A clearing of the throat can even be done at minimal volume. There is always the end of the movement if it's a real tickle - plus no one will know it's you as there 50 others going at the same point.

Coughing's not that bad anyway. Mid movement the person normally does it just once. I'd take heavy breathers, programme flickers, fanners, lovers, whisperers/chatters, shoe squeakers, and bangers (why is there always a bang) as more annoying than coughers. They tend to be more persistent and there's absolutely no reason for them.

[Ferretfancy]

Another one to add to the list. At the Barbican last year a woman sitting in front of me was texting, I think on a Blackberry. It had a very bright screen, and kept flashing light in my eyes. After the first work finished, I had remonstrated with her and this led to an angry exchange. It was quite obvious that she didn't care a fig for others.

When the interval arrived, all my near neighbours congratulated me on my stand, which had started perfectly politely from my side, but interestingly none of them had intervened at the time. We are usually very unwilling to stand up to the idiots.

[Nick Armstrong]

You can tell when someone needs to cough and when they don't. A clearing of the throat can even be done at minimal volume. There is always the end of the movement if it's a real tickle - plus no one will know it's you as there 50 others going at the same point.

Coughing's not that bad anyway. Mid movement the person normally does it just once. I'd take heavy breathers, programme flickers, fanners, lovers, whisperers/chatters, shoe squeakers, and bangers (why is there always a bang) as more annoying than coughers. They tend to be more persistent and there's absolutely no reason for them.

Agreed entirely benb Good to have you back after your Berliozian posts last summer

Indeed, the list* you mention can be more annoying than coughers! I'd add score readers, with the inevitable (sometimes noisy) page turn... Heavy breathers can be the worst. I once shelled out huge amounts to sit centre stalls at Covent Garden for a particular piece, only to find the gentleman next to me wheezed and gurgled THROUGHOUT... It was a full house, I couldn't move elsewhere. I might as well have stood in Floral St. and set light to ten £20 notes

At the same time, the avoidable coughs - barked, open mouthed, in the manner of a bronchitic walrus - are tremendously annoying for their thoughtlessness. I've had need to cough.. and suppressed it - you can keep your mouth shut, clear your throat almost noiselessly, hold it together till the end of the movement, or at least a noisy bit... even if it's agony, your eyes water etc etc. I'd rather do that than ruin things for other people.


*reminds me of the list of malefactors in "Blazing Saddles": "rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers, and Methodists"

[Beef Oven]

A few years ago I took my daughter to a concert at the Barbican, Verklarte Nacht and New World Symphony. A good programme to whet the appetite of a young kid I thought.

At the end of the concert, I got my camera out and took a few snaps of the conductor and the band as they were bowing etc. A group of teenagers in the row in front of me (in an otherwise superannuated audience) turned around and started to tell me off saying you're not allowed to take pictures and told me to stop!

As I was with my young daughter I had to temper my response to "are you a copper? No? Well shut up then". They desisted, but I shouldn't have been forced to defend myself like that.

Did I really fundamentally breach a protocol by taking photos?

P.S. There have been other occasions when this has happened to me.

[Bryn]

...

Did I really fundamentally breach a protocol by taking photos?

...

Yes, of course you did. It would have been made clear in the programme booklet and there terms and conditions referred to on your ticket.