American Classics

[Suffolkcoastal]

The 7th & 10th are probably the weakest of the later Schuman symphonies, though they are still good works. The 9th is my particular favourite, a masterpiece IMHO. No one has mentioned William Bolcom yet, he's probably the American composer I'm least familiar with, and how about more recent composers such as Christopher Rouse, John Corigliano and Ellen Zwilich?

[Suffolkcoastal]

I know what you mean ER, I struggle with Black Angels as well. I recognise it as a great and original work, especially for the medium, but I have to admit at a personal level it keeps me at arms length.

[Beef Oven]

The 7th & 10th are probably the weakest of the later Schuman symphonies, though they are still good works. The 9th is my particular favourite, a masterpiece IMHO. No one has mentioned William Bolcom yet, he's probably the American composer I'm least familiar with, and how about more recent composers such as Christopher Rouse, John Corigliano and Ellen Zwilich?

What I've heard of Bolcom has not enthused me. Of the others, I have a few Corigliano CDs, but the rest, I have not heard of. I don't suppose I've played any Corigliano for almost 15 years!

Regarding Schuman, I tend to prefer the earlier symphonies anyway.

[Roehre]

The 7th & 10th are probably the weakest of the later Schuman symphonies, though they are still good works. The 9th is my particular favourite, a masterpiece IMHO. No one has mentioned William Bolcom yet, he's probably the American composer I'm least familiar with, and how about more recent composers such as Christopher Rouse, John Corigliano and Ellen Zwilich?

Sticking to symphonies here, I am less than impressed by Corigliano's 2nd and Zwilich's 4th symphonies (I don't know yet the latter's 5th). Schumann 3 and 9 are my favourites, but I haste to say, that I wouldn't like to describe his 10th as a weak work, certainly not after repeated listening - it's in a furter developed style IMO, and it would have been very intersting to see what an eleventh would have sounded like.....
For some reason I have doubts about Bolcom's composing. A brilliant craftsman without any doubt (the Overture for an (almost) 18th century orchestra a good example of this), but really original and interesting ideas I haven't discovered yet in his output I'm afraid

[Suffolkcoastal]

I haven't heard Zwilich's 5th yet either. The weakest of the Schuman symphonies are the 2nd & 4th, I just feel that the 7th & 10th aren't quite the equal of the 6th, 8th & 9th. The first movement is basically his slightly earlier Prelude for a Great Occasion, the central movement I love, but the finale I'm not so convinced by. You could almost consider the American Hymn for Orchestra his 11th Symphony, it certainly is on scale and there is an American precedent for a Variation Symphony in Peter Mennin's masterly 7th.

[EdgeleyRob]

"difficult" ?
What particularly did you find difficult ?

It's clearly a very original masterpiece but I didn't get anything out of it.
Out of my comfort zone probably.

[Roehre]

.....The weakest of the Schuman symphonies are the 2nd & 4th, I just feel that the 7th & 10th aren't quite the equal of the 6th, 8th & 9th. The first movement is basically his slightly earlier Prelude for a Great Occasion, the central movement I love, but the finale I'm not so convinced by. You could almost consider the American Hymn for Orchestra his 11th Symphony, it certainly is on scale .....

Good point. A lesser composer might have called this his Eleventh...

[Beef Oven]

The weakest of the Schuman symphonies are the 2nd & 4th

To use the words of the late Robert Simpson, I wouldn't know the difference between a rising fifth and a rissole!

I have just finished palying William Schuman's war-time symphony #4 and I think it's a wonderful piece, lyrical and full of optimism, long a favourite of mine.

Could the difference in our perspectives on this symphony be at least partially explained by you being a composer?

I put this point earlier to ahinton in relation to Sessions and he felt not.

[MrGongGong]

It's clearly a very original masterpiece but I didn't get anything out of it.
Out of my comfort zone probably.

Having experienced it live several times I would jump at the chance
I suspect it might be one of those pieces that is a bit "fragile" in moving from one context to another

[teamsaint]

Having experienced it live several times I would jump at the chance
I suspect it might be one of those pieces that is a bit "fragile" in moving from one context to another

Watching it performed on youtube certainly helped me give it a certain amount of context, not least because I was interested (after having listened to without visuals to the opening,) in seeing what the players were actually doing.
I would certainly love to see a performance.It would be an experience at the very least.

[Ferretfancy]

I've rather lost my way here, because people refer retrospectively to a composer mentioned in an earlier posting without reminding us which one they are discussing. A little re him, or her, or it, might be helpful, or at least the number of the posting.
Thanks
Ferret

[MrGongGong]

Ferret I think the key information is
George Crumb and specifically Black Angels
but there's so much more


Is it just me who is keen on this one ?
(i'm sure Beefy has this now )



and

Ellen Fullman ?

http://www.ellenfullman.com/

or should I make a new thread for the eccentric niche musics that some of us love so much ?

[Beef Oven]

This is a CD I bought in 2008. The Concerto for Orchestra is a real 'find' (at least for me) and the Nashville Symphony Orchestra play it well. Seems to me that many American Orchestras are better than European ones!!

I wonder if anyone else following this thread knows this work.

[amateur51]

This is a CD I bought in 2008. The Concerto for Orchestra is a real 'find' (at least for me) and the Nashville Symphony Orchestra play it well. Seems to me that many American Orchestras are better than European ones!!

I wonder if anyone else following this thread knows this work.

First hearing of the Concerto for Orchestra, via Spotify, certainly makes a good impression though I'm not sure how much 'memorable' material there is here for me, but I'm glad to have heard it & will listen again.

It would make a great Prom piece - Salonen/Philharmonia? NYO/Petrenko?

[Suffolkcoastal]

To use the words of the late Robert Simpson, I wouldn't know the difference between a rising fifth and a rissole!

I have just finished palying William Schuman's war-time symphony #4 and I think it's a wonderful piece, lyrical and full of optimism, long a favourite of mine.

Could the difference in our perspectives on this symphony be at least partially explained by you being a composer?

I put this point earlier to ahinton in relation to Sessions and he felt not.

I don't think being a composer makes too much difference. I do have a score of the work (I've got scores of all the Schuman symphonies apart from the withdrawn 1st, 2 and 10.) and I feel that Schuman was a little too anxious to repeat the success of his 3rd Symphony and composed the work too quickly in its aftermath (as Harris did with his 2nd Symphony after the success of the 1st). Mind you a weaker work by Schuman is better than 'strong' works by other composers and I quite enjoy the work too. The other main work on the disc the 9th, is a masterpiece, though I wish Ormandy's recording (which I have on LP) would be issued on CD.