American Classics

[Black Swan]

Many people are turned off Copland because of the repetition of his most popular works, fine though they are. There are other works in a similar vein that are well worth hearing, such as Our Town and Quiet City, but there are also more challenging works such as Inscape, Statements for Orchestra, and the Symphonic Ode. I'm particularly fond of his later ballet music simply called Dance Panels.
Does anybody know the music of Irving Fine? I have a CD of his work called Serious Song, which is very haunting.

Ferretfancy,

I totally agree with you on Dance Panels. One of my favorite works by Copland. As you say Connotations and Inscape are a bit tough. Copland's venture into 12 Tone. I have heard some Irving Fine. Suffolkcoastal, do you have an opinion on Fine?

[ahinton]

American "classics"? Some of what's been mentioned in this thread so far ought indeed to be so regarded but, even in America itself, few examples of that country's very considerable mid-20th century symphonic output gets concert hall outings and those that do get performed all too rarely. Diamond, Piston, Schuman, Copland, Harris, Bernstein and others have been mentioned - I don't think anyone's cited Mennin yet but I've certainly seen no reference to the composer who is surely the greatest of them all - Roger Sessions; why his music hardly ever gets played by orchestras anywhere, especially in his own country, has long been beyond me. The recording situation is not so bad, I suppose - but the way to hear these works is in a concert hall and it surprises me that America seems almost entirely unconcerned about this important part of its musical heritage. As far as the American symphonic tradition goes, the contributions of Glass seem to me to do little more than undermine it altogether in an ever-increasingly tiresome manner and Carter has only two real symphonies to his name (I don't really count A Symphony of Three Orchestras as a symphony per se and I'm not quite sure that he did either - it seems to me to be no more of a "symphony" that Stravinsky's Symphonies of Wind Instruments or Shostakovich's 14th) which, being more than half a century apart, are so different from one another as to belong to two quite distinct traditions.

Many thanks, Beef Oven, for initiating this thread!

[Suffolkcoastal]

Yes I've a few works by Fine, his music is slightly Stravinskyian neo-classical in style and very refined. He wrote some good songs too, his only Symphony is also worth a listen. Sessions is a fascinating composer, I think I've got recordings of nearly all his published works, apart from the very early works, quite difficult to get in to, but worth the effort for those willing try. His 3rd Piano Sonata must be one of the most difficult and aggressive works ever written for that instrument. As for Peter Mennin, I think I've got a considerable portion of his relatively small output. His works get considerably tougher from around the 1960's but again worth the study.

[Beef Oven]

Many people are turned off Copland because of the repetition of his most popular works, fine though they are. There are other works in a similar vein that are well worth hearing, such as Our Town and Quiet City, but there are also more challenging works such as Inscape, Statements for Orchestra, and the Symphonic Ode. I'm particularly fond of his later ballet music simply called Dance Panels.
Does anybody know the music of Irving Fine? I have a CD of his work called Serious Song, which is very haunting.

Definitely agree. In fact, Quiet City and Dance Panels are among my favourite Copland works, but I'm a sucker (if I may use that American (?) term) for the ballets!

[Beef Oven]

I'll gladly recommend a huge variety of American works. I've probably got one of the larger collections of American works in the country, I don't know exactly how many but its well into four figures, including a couple of hundred symphonies. Some of the US composers in the American composers series on Naxos I don't have as some of these pieces are to say the least of poor quality. I wish Naxos would work towards recording the countless number of non commercially recorded works by the important figures in US music first.

Thank you SC, I know that your recommendations will be eagerly awaited by us on here.

Yes, some of the Naxos issues are not the strongest compositions, but it's good to have them all the same.

[Petrushka]

I have to admit that American classics are a somewhat neglected area in my CD collection consisting of little more than the inevitable Copland and Bernstein works. However, I do have a bit of Ives and Carter also a Samuel Barber CD from Jarvi and the Detroit SO.

Plainly, this thread could prove expensive (sigh).

Many years ago I heard a performance on R3 by the Chicago SO and Sir Georg Solti of the 4th Symphony by Easley Blackwood, a composer I've never heard of before or since though would like to catch it again. Does anyone know it? Suffolkcoastal?

[teamsaint]

I have to admit that American classics are a somewhat neglected area in my CD collection consisting of little more than the inevitable Copland and Bernstein works. However, I do have a bit of Ives and Carter also a Samuel Barber CD from Jarvi and the Detroit SO.

Plainly, this thread could prove expensive (sigh).

Many years ago I heard a performance on R3 by the Chicago SO and Sir Georg Solti of the 4th Symphony by Easley Blackwood, a composer I've never heard of before or since though would like to catch it again. Does anyone know it? Suffolkcoastal?

I don't, but it will be interesting to find out about, and in any case he wins "Name of the Day" as far as I am concerned.
Classical music as a whole.I'm afraid can't hold a candle to the Blues for names, and especially my all time favourite musician name (and fine musician) Snooks Eaglin'.

[BBMmk2]

That DetroitSO/Jarvi recordiong, is well worth having, imo.

[Beef Oven]

American "classics"? Some of what's been mentioned in this thread so far ought indeed to be so regarded but, even in America itself, few examples of that country's very considerable mid-20th century symphonic output gets concert hall outings and those that do get performed all too rarely. Diamond, Piston, Schuman, Copland, Harris, Bernstein and others have been mentioned - I don't think anyone's cited Mennin yet but I've certainly seen no reference to the composer who is surely the greatest of them all - Roger Sessions; why his music hardly ever gets played by orchestras anywhere, especially in his own country, has long been beyond me. The recording situation is not so bad, I suppose - but the way to hear these works is in a concert hall and it surprises me that America seems almost entirely unconcerned about this important part of its musical heritage. As far as the American symphonic tradition goes, the contributions of Glass seem to me to do little more than undermine it altogether in an ever-increasingly tiresome manner and Carter has only two real symphonies to his name (I don't really count A Symphony of Three Orchestras as a symphony per se and I'm not quite sure that he did either - it seems to me to be no more of a "symphony" that Stravinsky's Symphonies of Wind Instruments or Shostakovich's 14th) which, being more than half a century apart, are so different from one another as to belong to two quite distinct traditions.

Many thanks, Beef Oven, for initiating this thread!

Many thanks ahinton for a number of of very interesting observations.

If I get time this evening, I fancy re-visiting Carter's A Symphony Of Three Orchestras (I saw it performed in the presence of the composer in London in 2006).

Mennin and Sessions are two composers that weren't in my head when I started the thread and I acknowledge their importance. I do struggle with Sessions - is your appreciation influenced to a degree by your being a professional musician/composer?

[Petrushka]

I don't, but it will be interesting to find out about, and in any case he wins "Name of the Day" as far as I am concerned.
Classical music as a whole.I'm afraid can't hold a candle to the Blues for names, and especially my all time favourite musician name (and fine musician) Snooks Eaglin'.

There's quite a bit of Easley Blackwood (great name isn't it?) on youTube including his Symphony No 1 from 1955 (which must surely be a candidate for SC's next outing!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQKCI4bagpU

[teamsaint]

I happened upon Sessions # 8 by chance on youtube recently and was very impressed, Beefy. If you haven't heard that one, give it a whirl.

Edit: the only article I have found discussing this (and other works), and it IS worth a read, says that it is not music for the amateur, so I have turned it off.

http://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/roger-sessions.pdf

[ahinton]

Many thanks ahinton for a number of of very interesting observations.

If I get time this evening, I fancy re-visiting Carter's A Symphony Of Three Orchestras (I saw it performed in the presence of the composer in London in 2006).

It's a marvellous piece, but less of a "symphony" (it seems to me) than either his early Symphony No. 1 from the early 1940s or what is arguably the crowning glory of his achievement as a whole, the Symphonia: Sum Fluxæ Pretium Spei which he began a mere 20 or so yeas ago. Do listen to this in Oliver Knussen's splendid recording as well; it repays immense dividends.

Mennin and Sessions are two composers that weren't in my head when I started the thread and I acknowledge their importance. I do struggle with Sessions - is your appreciation influenced to a degree by your being a professional musician/composer?

No, not at all - only by the effect that his best work has had on me when I've listened to it; both he and Babbitt have often been accused of dry academicism but, frankly, I can't hear that in the work of either.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Yes I know the Blackwood 4th Symphony, quite a tough work. I've got 4 of his 5 symphonies (I don't have the 3rd). The 1st comes from 1958 (I've always had it down as being completed in that year, I think it was only originally sketched in 1955), so will be reaching it soon on my symphonic journey. His Violin Concerto is rather good and certainly worth investigating. Harris is of course my area of special interest, I think I probably have one of the largest collections of recordings of his work outside the US, then Piston. I'll throw three more composers in for discussion of which I'm quite fond for discussion, Paul Creston, Benjamin Lees and Wallingford Riegger.
My favourite Sessions symphony is the 7th, a dramatic anti-war piece. I wish someone would commercially record his large scale opera Montezuma, a marvellous work and one of my favourite American operas.

[Beef Oven]

It's a marvellous piece, but less of a "symphony" (it seems to me) than either his early Symphony No. 1 from the early 1940s or what is arguably the crowning glory of his achievement as a whole, the Symphonia: Sum Fluxæ Pretium Spei which he began a mere 20 or so yeas ago. Do listen to this in Oliver Knussen's splendid recording as well; it repays immense dividends.


No, not at all - only by the effect that his best work has had on me when I've listened to it; both he and Babbitt have often been accused of dry academicism but, frankly, I can't hear that in the work of either.

Ah, yes Babbitt. I'd forgotten about him too!

[Beef Oven]

Yes I know the Blackwood 4th Symphony, quite a tough work. I've got 4 of his 5 symphonies (I don't have the 3rd). The 1st comes from 1958 so will be reaching it soon on my symphonic journey. His Violin Concerto is rather good and certainly worth investigating. Harris is of course my area of special interest, I think I probably have one of the largest collections of recordings of his work outside the US, then Piston. I'll throw three more composers in for discussion of which I'm quite fond for discussion, Paul Creston, Benjamin Lees and Wallingford Riegger.

Creston I'm familiar with and I have the Naxos Lees CD, Symphony #4 'Memorial Candles', in memory of those who perished in the Holocaust. Wallingford Riegger is a new name to me (so is Blackwood).