American Classics

[teamsaint]

Having a listen to the Schwarz Naxos disc of Symphonies 3 and 7. TBH, whilst 3 is enjoyable, 7 strikes me on first listen as a more interesting work.
A cd well worth getting hold of in any case.

[Pulcinella]

Having a listen to the Schwarz Naxos disc of Symphonies 3 and 7. TBH, whilst 3 is enjoyable, 7 strikes me on first listen as a more interesting work.
A cd well worth getting hold of in any case.

Who's the composer, ts?
Mennin, I'm guessing, right?

[teamsaint]

Who's the composer, ts?
Mennin, I'm guessing, right?

Sorry, yes, Mennin it is.

[richardfinegold]

Gerard Schwarz, American Music, Gramophone July 2019

An alert to Forumites that the July issue of Gramophone features a fascinating article written by Schwarz about 20th Century American Symphonies. He omits the better known works of Copland and Bernstein and concentrates on many works that he has recorded, such as Walter Piston Fourth (I am playing this currently), the Schuman cycle, works by Creston, Diamond, Menin, and others.
There are many fascinating antidotes, such as the time that Artur Rodzinski banned the Diamond from hearing rehearsals of his Second Symphony. Diamond sulked in a bar across the street and inebriated, punched Rodzinski in the nose at the end of the rehearsal. This caused Copland and Bernstein to hire a Psychiatrist for Diamond.
Schwarz writes well and his enthusiasm for the Music is palpable

[maestro267]

A fine article, which I read at my local library. I have the Diamond 2nd and 4th Symphonies, in their original Delos Records guise.

[richardfinegold]

A fine article, which I read at my local library. I have the Diamond 2nd and 4th Symphonies, in their original Delos Records guise.

I remember when those recordings came out on Delos and borrowing them from my local library. They failed to make much of an impression but I’d like to revisit them. I have since moved from that town by my son now lives there with my two grandchildren, so perhaps The Grandparents could take them to the library for the children’s books and Grandfather can wander off....I have the Schuman set and the Piston Fourth. It is a pity that Schwarz didn’t do an integral set of the Piston works

[Pulcinella]

A fine article, which I read at my local library. I have the Diamond 2nd and 4th Symphonies, in their original Delos Records guise.

I enjoyed reading it too, but found it (understandably, perhaps) a little biased towards repertoire that Schwarz had recorded.

[Pulcinella]

Edward Seckerson has written a follow-up article in the August 2019 issue, which arrived here on Saturday.
In his opinion, however, Ives' Fourth Symphony 'could lay claim to being not just the most important American symphony but the most important single piece of American music, period.'

The only recording I have of it is the Cleveland/Dohnányi in the Double Decca set of Ives symphonies, and I don't think that that's that well thought of, is it?

[Bryn]

Edward Seckerson has written a follow-up article in the August 2019 issue, which arrived here on Saturday.
In his opinion, however, Ives' Fourth Symphony 'could lay claim to being not just the most important American symphony but the most important single piece of American music, period.'

The only recording I have of it is the Cleveland/Dohnányi in the Double Decca set of Ives symphonies, and I don't think that that's that well thought of, is it?

It's not that bad. I think MTT is better but my first choice would be John Adams with the Ensemble Modern Orchestra, though its price, if you can find a copy, is likely to be prohibitive. Of more recent recordings, I would go far Morlot over Andrew Davis, but both are worth hearing. I was rather disappointed with the Litton though.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Dohnanyi's isn't the worst recording of the Ives #4 by any means (that would have to be Ozawa) - but it is an unusual "take" on the work, taking Ives' use of the word "comedy" at face value, and putting a spring in the Music's step that doesn't contradict the score [he is meticulous in his observation of detail - at least, of the only edition of the score I know].

I greatly enjoy the five recordings of the work I own, but I always come back to Serebrier with the LPO - originally for RCA, it got its first CD release on CHANDOS, and a bit pricey for a disc with less than 40 minutes of Music on it. Amazon have a version which couples this recording with Ormandy's recording of the Second Symphony (which recording I don't know).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ives-Symphonies-Nos-2-4/dp/B00000JMH5

Michael Tilson Thomas' recording (a bit "stiff" IMO - as if another couple of rehearsals would have helped to get the notes more readily under the skin of the performers) is very useful for having some of the hymns used in the work also included.


There's too much excellent Music from the United States to give Seckerson's puppyish enthusiasm any credence - but, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a better piece that's come from the US.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... John Adams with the Ensemble Modern Orchestra, though its price, if you can find a copy, is likely to be prohibitive. Of more recent recordings, I would go far Morlot over Andrew Davis, but both are worth hearing. I was rather disappointed with the Litton though.

Just shows how out-of-touch I've got with more recent recordings of the work: I've not heard any of these

[Joseph K]

There's too much excellent Music from the United States to give Seckerson's puppyish enthusiasm any credence - but, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a better piece that's come from the US.

Excluding jazz, my no. 1 American piece would have to be Carter's Concerto for Orchestra - exhilarating, monumental, just amazing.

[ahinton]

Excluding jazz, my no. 1 American piece would have to be Carter's Concerto for Orchestra - exhilarating, monumental, just amazing.

Not quite sure about my "no. 1" but it is indeed as you describe it and, without doubt (to me, anyway), his most remarkable orchestral work before Symphonia from almost three decades later.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Excluding jazz, my no. 1 American piece would have to be Carter's Concerto for Orchestra - exhilarating, monumental, just amazing.

Not quite sure about my "no. 1" but it is indeed as you describe it and, without doubt (to me, anyway), his most remarkable orchestral work before Symphonia from almost three decades later.

There are too many works by American composers (Ives, Carter, Babbitt, Feldman, Cage, Schoenberg, Stravinsky etc etc) that are of such a high standard of imagination and achievement that I don't have the facilities to be able to point to any single one of them and claim it was "the best", or even "my favorite". The Carter Concerto for Orchestra is certainly - unquestionably amongst these superlative works (as is the Symphonia ... and ... and ... and ...

[PatrickMurtha]

Reviving this thread, will contribute to it actively as time goes on.