Now I've seen it all

[rauschwerk]

It's a bit of a mystery to me why opera in cinemas(live and recorded) seems to have caught on, but orchestral concerts haven't.

[Beef Oven]

I think that in order for various types of music to prosper, new audiences need to be "confronted" with the unfamiliar.
Part of the problem of the modern choice based entertainment world is that it is so easy to default to the safe, the understood. But in fact The apparently unfamiliar is often not as "difficult" as we imagined.
So (despite the fact that the speech is probably the usual career building platform), I think that orchestras , (and folk and Jazz musicians ) do in fact need to go out and find the audience.
So, perhaps orchestras and classical musicians might usefully try to tap into the vast summer festivals circuit, for instance.
To get peoples spending money, you need to be light on your feet these days.......

This would still mean that we would be 'preaching to the converted'. Diversity is the key. When was the last time that an orchestra, professional or otherwise, programmed a Mingus symphony?

[MrGongGong]

I think one of the things at the heart of the "problem" (if there is one ......? which is another question all together)
is that in spite of us having access to a greater range of musics than at any time in history
we seem to have a narrower range of reasons why we might listen to music in the first place
so music is reduced to always being "entertainment" of one kind

Coupled with the conflation of taste and quality (It's good because I like it = I like it because it's good)
this makes it harder for people to imagine that they could listen and appreciate music in any other context than that of "entertainment"

This often puzzles me as people find it quite easy to go to a movie and find it shocking or scary or even upsetting
but with music people seem to always want the same thing (a bit like Mogadon woman on CFM "soooooooooo relaxing" )

So it would seem to me that the "solution" is NOT to make all musics the same BUT to encourage people to open their ears and find a wider range of contexts for music to play a part in their lives.

[teamsaint]

This would still mean that we would be 'preaching to the converted'. Diversity is the key. When was the last time that an orchestra, professional or otherwise, programmed a Mingus symphony?

quite. Those Mingus symphonies don't get half the publicity they should !!In fact its something of a personal crusade now. If I could just find the Cds !!

but you are right, Beefy. Unimaginative programming is a disaster, long term, IMO.

But I don't think i was suggesting that they would be preaching to the converted. I was suggesting a proactive approach, which might include lots of different types of venues, situations, financial models , and so on.

[salymap]

It must be the Silly Season. Something like this crops up regularly. Anyone who thinks concerts and musicians are elitist should be forced to attend one orchestral rehesrsal.

Apart from their musical abilities most musicians [and orchestral librarians] are a cross section of the community, friendly or grumpy depending on the sort of day they are having.

Perhaps applause, when to, when not to, should be made clearer to new concert goers. I find my mind travels forward to the next movement of a symphony or concerto and could cheerfully strangle the few
tentative clappers, who gradually stop, having spoilt the music for a bit.

For those who knew Edgar Mays, the BBCSO platform attendant, the thought of him coming to raise th piano lid [Cries of 'heave-ho' fromthe prommers], with a big grin is frankly, very scary.

[Sir Velo]

Orchestras are continuously recruiting in their own image and this means they have not changed in more than 50 years. If the question of falling audience numbers and diminishing sales of recorded classical music are to be addressed, then why not modernise in the way that many local authorities advocate for other aspects of 'communal life'? What sense does the music that we love passionately on these boards, make to a young black or muslim youth living in say, Tower Hamlets?

Oh God, the man's serious!

Trouble is, BO, that poorly performed classical music (I think I'm not misinterpreting you) will not appeal to anyone; neither the unconverted or the disciples. In fact, it will create the worst of all possible words. As to "accountability", all councils judge services on the basis of financial performance. Consequently, any council run orchestra or musical ensemble will be judged by bums on seats. Inevitably, this would mean a diet of Bolero and that bloody Lark.

Classical music has always been enjoyed by a minority of cognoscenti. While I would not dispute the need for new listeners, any attempt to give it yoof appeal is destined to failure. It smacks of desperation and inauthenticity, like your Dad dancing at a wedding disco.

[MrGongGong]

What sense does the music that we love passionately on these boards, make to a young black or muslim youth living in say, Tower Hamlets?

http://www.spitalfieldsmusic.org.uk/

These people have the answer to that one

Get the context right and everything works

[Beef Oven]

Oh God, the man's serious!

Trouble is, BO, that poorly performed classical music (I think I'm not misinterpreting you) will not appeal to anyone; neither the unconverted or the disciples. In fact, it will create the worst of all possible words. As to "accountability", all councils judge services on the basis of financial performance. Consequently, any council run orchestra or musical ensemble will be judged by bums on seats. Inevitably, this would mean a diet of Bolero and that bloody Lark.

Classical music has always been enjoyed by a minority of cognoscenti. While I would not dispute the need for new listeners, any attempt to give it yoof appeal is destined to failure. It smacks of desperation and inauthenticity, like your Dad dancing at a wedding disco.

See this for an example of youth appeal http://www.spitalfieldsmusic.org.uk/...participation/. Who's to say that a future Mozart, Mark Anthony Turnage or Bobby Farrell cannot come from this?


UPDATE: I see MrGG posted this too

[jean]

Dismay, really. Post 5 is spot on. David Lister, who writes on this topic in The Independent, thinks that the faces of orchestral conductors should be displayed on a screen. This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BRFYc9LOw would certainly get people raving, wouldn't it?

This one would!

It surprises me that the writer thinks potential audiences would find the concert halls intimidating - most halls (in the provinces, anyway) put on concerts in a variety of genres, and it doesn't put the punters off in the least.

[jean]

See this for an example of youth appeal http://www.spitalfieldsmusic.org.uk/...participation/. Who's to say that a future Mozart, Mark Anthony Turnage or Bobby Farrell cannot come from this?

The West Everton Youth Orchestra is an initiative of the Orchestra's, not of the local council.

[Beef Oven]

The West Everton Youth Orchestra is an initiative of the Orchestra's, not of the local council.

And no-one could say they can't play for toffees.

[amateur51]

Orchestras are continuously recruiting in their own image and this means they have not changed in more than 50 years. If the question of falling audience numbers and diminishing sales of recorded classical music are to be addressed, then why not modernise in the way that many local authorities advocate for other aspects of 'communal life'? What sense does the music that we love passionately on these boards, make to a young black or muslim youth living in say, Tower Hamlets?

In my experience orchestras have changed a lot over the last 20 years - far more women, the average age a lot younger, more ethnically diverse

[amateur51]

I think one of the things at the heart of the "problem" (if there is one ......? which is another question all together)
is that in spite of us having access to a greater range of musics than at any time in history
we seem to have a narrower range of reasons why we might listen to music in the first place
so music is reduced to always being "entertainment" of one kind

Coupled with the conflation of taste and quality (It's good because I like it = I like it because it's good)
this makes it harder for people to imagine that they could listen and appreciate music in any other context than that of "entertainment"

This often puzzles me as people find it quite easy to go to a movie and find it shocking or scary or even upsetting
but with music people seem to always want the same thing (a bit like Mogadon woman on CFM "soooooooooo relaxing" )

So it would seem to me that the "solution" is NOT to make all musics the same BUT to encourage people to open their ears and find a wider range of contexts for music to play a part in their lives.

Lots to think about there,

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And no-one could say they can't play for toffees.

Potentially quite profitable, too. They could make a mint.

[Flosshilde]

What sense does the music that we love passionately on these boards, make to a young black or muslim youth living in say, Tower Hamlets?

As much as it does to the young people living in Raploch, or soon will to the young people living in Govanhill.