Writing A Symphony - How Do They Do It?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sadly I haven't written a symphony yet, I've written for orchestra though, and I've written some works that last over 20 minutes. Yes I could write a symphony, and have plenty of ideas for one (the opening, usually the hardest thing, is already in my head), but I can't see the point in writing out all those notes into full score if I'm never going to hear the work played, so I haven't bothered. I haven't composed anything since the end of 2011, though I'm toying with writing a Piano Quintet at the moment, perhaps when I've finished my symphonic survey I might start!

Suffy, I was going to send you a PM about this, but it occurs to me that your situation may be similar to others reading this (Forumites who write poetry, paint, or working on their novel). I beg you, please don't desert your Symphony just because you're "never going to hear it played". The point of composing/painting/writing/sculpting is the composing (etc) itself; not the response of others (very pleasant though this is). The creative impulse seems to be a natural human instinct that we really shouldn't allow to die within us - the joy of making something that is entirely of ourself is a fantastic thing to experience, an experience that enhances our life: makes us "better" in ourselves, helps us to see our place in the whole sheebang. Just imagine how embittered one could become with oneself and with others if one denied and supressed the creative gifts (no matter how modest) that make us feel truly ourselves; just imagine the creeping growth of self-disgust, the lack of fulfilment and sense of failure that such a denial would bring upon one. Bugger everyone else, get those notes (/words/images) down: make life better!

I've been deeply impressed by your Symphony Survey, but it saddens me now to think that all that time listening and typing could have been spent on your own work. Never mind the thought that "nobody might ever perform/hear it": YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. What is absobloodylutely certain is that "Nobody else will - or can - compose it"!

Very Best Wishes.

[ahinton]

And didn't AP say somewhere that the concluding Tamtam stroke was a gateway, or a door opening between Elgar's sketches and the audience for whom he (AP) was completing the work in the 1990s and after?

Going through a pair of bronze doors...

I was asked to write an essay about E3 for a book that never materialised. I did so. I also wrote - at around the same time - a kind of affectionate spoof of this which, perhaps wisely, has also not been published (PM request - maybe - or maybe not). My astonished admiration for Anthony Payne in what he achieved with this remains unassailable.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Suffy, I was going to send you a PM about this, but it occurs to me that your situation may be similar to others reading this (Forumites who write poetry, paint, or working on their novel). I beg you, please don't desert your Symphony just because you're "never going to hear it played". The point of composing/painting/writing/sculpting is the composing (etc) itself; not the response of others (very pleasant though this is). The creative impulse seems to be a natural human instinct that we really shouldn't allow to die within us - the joy of making something that is entirely of ourself is a fantastic thing to experience, an experience that enhances our life: makes us "better" in ourselves, helps us to see our place in the whole sheebang. Just imagine how embittered one could become with oneself and with others if one denied and supressed the creative gifts (no matter how modest) that make us feel truly ourselves; just imagine the creeping growth of self-disgust, the lack of fulfilment and sense of failure that such a denial would bring upon one. Bugger everyone else, get those notes (/words/images) down: make life better!

I've been deeply impressed by your Symphony Survey, but it saddens me now to think that all that time listening and typing could have been spent on your own work. Never mind the thought that "nobody might ever perform/hear it": YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. What is absobloodylutely certain is that "Nobody else will - or can - compose it"!

Very Best Wishes.

Thanks very much, that is most kind and appreciated. Perhaps listening to all these symphonies from 212 years might ultimately encourage me to get the symphony down on paper and compose more once I've finished the survey. I'm almost completely self-taught musically, just like Elgar and at 48 I could just about beat Elgar age wise to a 1st Symphony, though I doubt if I'd ever be as good, especially as I've never heard any of my large scale works, the 2 Piano Sonatas and Two String Quartets and haven't heard anything I've written in the last 12 years to really judge if I am any good.

[MrGongGong]

It took me 48 years to get round to it
so i'd go for it
finding an orchestra to play it is another matter
I had the fortune to be commissioned by an excellent group

but you have heard many more large scale symphonic works than anyone I have heard of
so i'd love to hear what you do with it

[EdgeleyRob]

I'm almost completely self-taught musically, just like Elgar and at 48 I could just about beat Elgar age wise to a 1st Symphony, though I doubt if I'd ever be as good, especially as I've never heard any of my large scale works, the 2 Piano Sonatas and Two String Quartets and haven't heard anything I've written in the last 12 years to really judge if I am any good.

Is there hope for a musical numpty like me then ?

[teamsaint]

Your musical hero was composing some of his best stuff in his 70's ER.....plenty of time...

[MrGongGong]

Get Carter

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Going through a pair of bronze doors...

That was it! I knew there was a comment on these lines, thank you.

I was asked to write an essay about E3 for a book that never materialised. I did so.

Tempo not interested? They've included articles on Strauss in the past, and with the Payne connection ...

I also wrote - at around the same time - a kind of affectionate spoof of this which, perhaps wisely, has also not been published (PM request - maybe - or maybe not).

Oh, go on, then! But I hope you won't take it amiss if I say I'd be more interested to read the "straight" article.

My astonished admiration for Anthony Payne in what he achieved with this remains unassailable.

Quite so. Time's Arrow is another of his achievements for which I know we also share "unassailable admiration".

[ahinton]

Get Carter

Can't "get" enough of him, actually! Sadly, though, we can't get any more, which seems to me like some kind of grave injustice...

[ahinton]

Tempo not interested? They've included articles on Strauss in the past, and with the Payne connection ...

All far too late now, I fear...

Oh, go on, then! But I hope you won't take it amiss if I say I'd be more interested to read the "straight" article.

OK - on my own thick head be it (when I have a moment)...

Quite so. Time's Arrow is another of his achievements for which I know we also share "unassailable admiration".

Indeed we do!

[Serial_Apologist]

Is there hope for a musical numpty like me then ?

Do you possess a piano or keyboard? It's amazing what one can discover for oneself, just by improvising, ER. And it doesn't even have to be over well-known chord changes, though blues can be surprisingly revealing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And Berlioz couldn't play Piano at all: he sometimes used a guitar when trying out harmonies.


(Incidentally, there is a part of Berlioz's Memoirs which describes a story not unlike Suffy's: towards the end of his life, he dreamt the opening of a Symphony. He woke the next day with some of the ideas still in his memory, and started sketching them onto paper. Then he thought of all the work he'd have composing it; all the problems getting an orchestra together and getting financial backing for a concert; and the public indifference; and the critics' venom. So he just burnt what he'd done and forgot all about it!)

[teamsaint]

How composers write for instruments that they don't play, and in particular concertos, is an interesting subject.
I have thought also that an interesting thread might be had from the things that people didn't write , and why not.. ....If that makes any sense ! Ok, its late for me !

[Serial_Apologist]

How composers write for instruments that they don't play, and in particular concertos, is an interesting subject.
I have thought also that an interesting thread might be had from the things that people didn't write , and why. ....If that makes any sense ! Ok, its late for me !

Hindemith claimed that he never scored for instruments he himself could not play!

I must too a-bed...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

None of my pieces have ever been performed professionally and none are published (I've only had articles published). In fact I've only heard a few of my works in amateur performance. I tend to compose a piece then stick on the shelf with the rest. I'm not very good at getting my music 'out there'!

Well, it doesn't help if your copyists are slow, and behind schedule.