Barbirolli's Death

[cloughie]

And lo she came....


... and there was light !

By 'eck Cali this Hosting job seems to have driven you dramatic!

[Nick Armstrong]

By 'eck Cali this Hosting job seems to have driven you dramatic!

Just know which side my bread's buttered, matey!

[visualnickmos]

This is to peddle the standard Guardian reader line on the 1964-70 government: the abolition of the death penalty was by no means, I would suggest, an unequivocally good thing, nor was it universally popular.

As to 'homosexual recognition'..well, yes, I'll grant you that. It might interest you to know, though, that Wilson himself was notably unenthusiastic about this legislation and had a lifelong personal distaste for 'gay' (not a term he would have embraced) people, despite the presence of two of them in his cabinets (my source for this is Joe Haines's recent-ish memoir).

Wilson's handling of the economy, though, was disastrous - and this is an opinion generally held not just by New Right idealogues but also by many shades of left-wing opinion. About the only people who dissent are Guardian readers who worked in the public services, who saw their pay packets bulge during this period.

I am not a Guardian reader; it is MY view. And I do happen to know about Wilson's lack of enthusiasm for the gay legislation, as well as his personal homophobia. The point is that the legislation came about on his watch.

Out of pure interest, why do you feel the abolition of legalised murder is not a good thing?

[amateur51]

"He is never mean or little in his disputes, never takes unfair advantage, never mistakes personalities or sharp sayings for arguments, or insinuates evil which he dare not say out. From a long-sighted prudence, he observes the maxim of the ancient sage, that we should ever conduct ourselves towards our enemy as if he were one day to be our friend. He has too much good sense to be affronted at insults, he is too well employed to remember injuries, and too indolent to bear malice. He is patient, forbearing, and resigned, on philosophical principles..."

Beth bynnag

[cloughie]

Ah! Karajan was not a Guardian reader, I assume

Whereas I suspect JB with his Mancunian base very probably was!

[Mandryka]

I am not a Guardian reader; it is MY view. And I do happen to know about Wilson's lack of enthusiasm for the gay legislation, as well as his personal homophobia. The point is that the legislation came about on his watch.

Out of pure interest, why do you feel the abolition of legalised murder is not a good thing?

You sort of spoil things by loading your question with the emotive phrase 'legalised murder'.

I'm aware of the tragic miscarriages of justice that led to the 1969 abolition (following the 1965 suspension) but I think certain crimes are so heinous (rape//murder) that it is only fitting that the perpetrators of those crimes pay with their lives, where their guilt is beyond question. I don't buy the argument that keeping Brady and Hindley (or Thompson and Venables) alive gave us 'valuable' opportunities to study the criminal mind and what makes people commit murder - we are still none the wiser today.

Of course, the death penalty will not return, because it is now politically impossible to bring it back.

[teamsaint]

I thought that everybody agrees that killing people is wrong?

[visualnickmos]

...I don't buy the argument that keeping Brady and Hindley (or Thompson and Venables) alive gave us 'valuable' opportunities to study the criminal mind and what makes people commit murder

Mon dieu! How stupid of me; I knew there must have been a reason for abolishing the death penalty

(btw, I never put that argument forward anywhere in my postings - I am baffled as to where you got it from? You are sort of making up what you believe others are saying as you go along; maybe the wine is kicking in! 'Tis samedi soir, after all....)

[Mandryka]

Mon dieu! How stupid of me; I knew there must have been a reason for abolishing the death penalty

(btw, I never put that argument forward anywhere in my postings - I am baffled as to where you got it from? You are sort of making up what you believe others are saying as you go along; maybe the wine is kicking in! 'Tis samedi soir, after all....)

How do you infer that I was attributing this argument to you? At no point was I doing so.

However, as a fully paid up member of the liberal-who've-no-yet-been-mugged-by-life tendency, I wouldn't be surprised to hear you use it as a second line of defence.

[visualnickmos]

How do you infer that I was attributing this argument to you? At no point was I doing so.

However, as a fully paid up member of the liberal-who've-no-yet-been-mugged-by-life tendency, I wouldn't be surprised to hear you use it as a second line of defence.

I give up. I am losing the will to live. I don't know what you are talking about, except that you think Wilson was a disaster, hanging is good, and I am apparently a "fully paid up liberal - whatever???"

You'll be advocating that persistent audience-coughers be publicly humiliated in the interval, next. Now there's an idea....!

[french frank]

I give up. I am losing the will to live.

Me too. This is the Talking About Music board ...

[Nick Armstrong]

Me too. This is the Talking About Music board ...

Serious question: can a thread be de-merged into two, with the interesting musical comments remaining here, and the political -throwing* crossing the bridge to Platform 3?


*I couldn't find a smiley for what I wanted to show being thrown...

[Flay]

*I couldn't find a smiley for what I wanted to show being thrown...

How about this? (But without the fan):

Having scanned through, could I suggest keeping the musical discussion and discarding the remainder?

[Nick Armstrong]

How about this? (But without the fan):

Having scanned through, could I suggest keeping the musical discussion and discarding the remainder?

We await the opinion of F Frank Q.C.

[Beef Oven]

How about re-naming this thread and allowing the OP author et al to spew bile and shit at each other while somebody starts a new Barbirolli thread that is not, de facto, insulting and highly offensive to the memory one of our greatest musicians?