Barbirolli's Death

[Guest]

As we know, JB died very suddenly in the summer of 1970. The last decade of his career had also been the busiest, as he shuttled between Manchester, London, Houston and other international locations, made recordings, planned seasons and was generally engaged in the business of being a very successful conductor.

I've read that one (if not the main) reason for his status as a blur of activity during this period was his desire to achieve some form of financial security. He hadn't been so bothered about his finances earlier in his career but the late fifties/sixties saw him looking to the future with some concern - hence, the upped work-rate.

It can't have helped that this period of potentially profitable work coincided with the election of Harold Wilson's Labour government of 1964-70, with his punitive taxation policies on high earners. Ironically, after Wilson was turfed out of power by the elecorate in June 1970, Barbirolli himself was dead - many ascribing his early demise to over-work.

Impossible to prove anything, of course, but it's hard not to conjecture that Barbirolli's untimely death may have been facilitated by the stresses caused by living under an incompetent, dysfunctional and vindictive Labour government. Personally, I'd be happy to forgo the Open University, the devaluation of the pound, the drunken tomfoolery of George Brown and Wedgwood Benn's 'stamps without a sovereign's head' for the Meistersinger recording we would have had if JB had lived.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Impossible to prove anything, of course, but it's hard not to conjecture that Barbirolli's untimely death may have been facilitated by the stresses caused by living under an incompetent, dysfunctional and vindictive Labour government.

...whereas those today who die under the present incompetent, dysfunctional, vindictive and essentially Tory government may not include anyone so famous as Barbirolli, so that's probably OK? For example, those who were ruled fit to work, had their benefits withdrawn and then died after a few days' work? Don't suppose they'll get much of a shout on these boards in 43 years' time!

[johnb]

Silly post. [Mandryka's]

If it wasn't for the fact that he was 80 when he died (not exactly a bad age) I would said that more probable contributing factors were the copious quantities of scotch and fags that he got through.

[cloughie]

Silly post. [Mandryka's]

If it wasn't for the fact that he was 80 when he died (not exactly a bad age) I would said that more probable contributing factors were the copious quantities of scotch and fags that he got through.

Perhaps Mandryka has consumed copious quantities of scotch or some other substance to come up with such fatuous statements!

[Mandryka]

Silly post. [Mandryka's]

If it wasn't for the fact that he was 80 when he died (not exactly a bad age) I would said that more probable contributing factors were the copious quantities of scotch and fags that he got through.

He was only 70 when he died, which was only an 'average' age at that time. Do get your facts right!

[Mandryka]

Perhaps Mandryka has consumed copious quantities of scotch or some other substance to come up with such fatuous statements!

Haven't touched a drop all day, but have endured a long and desolate drive from Pembrokeshire.

[johnb]

He was only 70 when he died, which was only an 'average' age at that time. Do get your facts right!

I apologise, you are quite right of course, as far as his age when he sadly died is concerned (the rest of what you wrote is utter twaddle). If I wasn't someone who believed the best of people I would think that your OP was deliberately intended to be inflammatory.

Sad.

[Mandryka]

I apologise, you are quite right of course, as far as his age when he sadly died is concerned (the rest of what you wrote is utter twaddle). If I wasn't someone who believed the best of people I would think that your OP was deliberately intended to be inflammatory.

Sad.

I'm at a loss as to what could be 'inflammatory' about the OP. Like a lot of people, I continue to be saddened that Barbirolli was taken from us so suddenly when he seemed to be on something of a professional roll (Neville Cardus be damned). And, actually, I do think people have died worrying about how they're going to sustain themselves in later life when governments seem intent on stealing their earnings via taxation (direct or otherwise) and eroding their savings through inability (or unwillingness) to control inflation.

Now that IS sad.

[french frank]

Personally, I'd be happy to forgo the Open University [....]

As you say, a personal view. I know several people who worked hard to gain Open University degrees. They might hold a different view, as do I.

I would have no problem with: "What a pity Sir John didn't survive to give us that Meistersinger recording." And what a pity Mozart/Schubert/Mendelssohn &c. didn't survive to give us ...

Sir John left the equivalent of about £459,000. Not huge but I doubt he'd have been too worried about sustaining himself in later life.

[Mandryka]

Sir John left the equivalent of about £459,000. Not huge but I doubt he'd have been too worried about sustaining himself in later life.

Now, for someone working in the 'high arts', in 1970, that's an impressive figure.

The government would, of course, have been keen to whittle it down and I'm sure his death duties were punitive (of his widow).

[richardfinegold]

Didn't many successful Brits relocate in that time? Wasn't that the main reason why the Beatles and the Rolling Stones left the U.K.?
It's timely because of what is happening in France, with famous Actors suddenly discovering that they find the likes of Vladimir Putin preferable to their own leaders. Over here, Obama seems determined to punish the Rich as well, which eliminates a potential haven for the well healed Frenchies and other
Continentals to flee to. Will they all hide behind Tsar Putin to avoid taxation? The wealthy migrating to the former Dictatorship of the Proletariat to escape the wrath of rapacious Socialism? What has the world come to?

[Barbirollians]

Mandryka I am afraid your posting overlooks the main reason for his need to work so hard in later life to achieve financial security . The manager of the Halle who also managed his and Evelyn Barbirolli's personal finances - Kenneth Crickmore stole much of their money . Crickmore died young of cancer in 1965 only for this to be discovered shortly before his death In a letter to Michael Kennedy recounted in Kennedy's biography he told MK that "his late manager had been helping himself liberally to my cash and at 66 I have practically to begin again ".

They were eventually able to recover some money in a claim against Crickmore's estate . The distress at his betrayal and the stress of the proceedings as well as the work schedule he threw himself into no doubt together with his chainsmoking badly affected his health and the heart disease that eventually killed him was discovered in 1967 not long after .

Hence, your speculation about Barbirolli's work rate being related to punitive tax rates appears to be entirely misconceived.

There is no doubt a place for discussion about the rights and wrongs of inheritance tax ( although the complete spouse exemption was introduced by the Labour Government in 1974 ) - a thread distastefully and inaccurately suggesting tax rates caused the early death of JB is not in my opinion an appropriate one.

[Mandryka]

Mandryka I am afraid your posting overlooks the main reason for his need to work so hard in later life to achieve financial security . The manager of the Halle who also managed his and Evelyn Barbirolli's personal finances - Kenneth Crickmore stole much of their money . Crickmore died young of cancer in 1965 only for this to be discovered shortly before his death In a letter to Michael Kennedy recounted in Kennedy's biography he told MK that "his late manager had been helping himself liberally to my cash and at 66 I have practically to begin again ".

They were eventually able to recover some money in a claim against Crickmore's estate . The distress at his betrayal and the stress of the proceedings as well as the work schedule he threw himself into no doubt together with his chainsmoking badly affected his health and the heart disease that eventually killed him was discovered in 1967 not long after .

Hence, your speculation about Barbirolli's work rate being related to punitive tax rates appears to be entirely misconceived.

There is no doubt a place for discussion about the rights and wrongs of inheritance tax ( although the complete spouse exemption was introduced by the Labour Government in 1974 ) - a thread distastefully and inaccurately suggesting tax rates caused the early death of JB is not in my opinion an appropriate one.

Fair enough. I'm sorry you have taken offence.

I had heard allusions to the situation with his accountant, so thank you for supplying the details. A combination of personal betrayal, being embezzled, against the background of an unsympathetic government sounds very ugly.

[Mandryka]

Didn't many successful Brits relocate in that time? Wasn't that the main reason why the Beatles and the Rolling Stones left the U.K.?
It's timely because of what is happening in France, with famous Actors suddenly discovering that they find the likes of Vladimir Putin preferable to their own leaders. Over here, Obama seems determined to punish the Rich as well, which eliminates a potential haven for the well healed Frenchies and other
Continentals to flee to. Will they all hide behind Tsar Putin to avoid taxation? The wealthy migrating to the former Dictatorship of the Proletariat to escape the wrath of rapacious Socialism? What has the world come to?

Only one of the Beatles (Ringo) went into tax exile, afia. John Lennon's reasons for making his fateful move to New York were not related (I understand) to a desire to escape British taxes.

The Rolling Stones, though, did indeed blaze the trail for pop performers to scarper for tax havens: the first one they chose,oddly enough, was France.

I was in Moscow when Putin made the announcement about Depardieu. With its flat 13% tax rate, the Russian Federation is indeed an attractive prospect for people with money - and Putin, being an astute politician as well as an iron-handed dictator, seized the opportunity to publicise his country's tax rate as well as parading Depardieu like a prize pot-bellied pig he had just acquired at an upmarket farmer's market.

He is also keen to keep Lenin on display, so that Russians can contemplate their communist (actually state capitalist) past and wonder at how they arrived at where they are.

[Dave2002]

Sir John left the equivalent of about £459,000. Not huge but I doubt he'd have been too worried about sustaining himself in later life.

What do you mean by " the equivalent of"? Maybe you're referring to assets at the time as well as cash. Difficult to be precise about asset values at the best of times. If that is an estimate of today's money it'd just about buy a small terrace house or a modest flat in parts of London, or a rather decent detached in some more northerly parts of the country.