"Benjamin Britten at 100 - time for a new appraisal?"

[Suffolkcoastal]

I think Tear was only responding to initial snide remarks by Pears, who was jealous of him and I expect perceived Tear as a threat.

I think the one thing we musn't do, especially in an anniversary year, is to regard everywork that Britten wrote as a masterpiece. Like every other composer he had his off days and some of the works, especially from 1964-71, are horribly dry in invention and lack real inspiration.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

some of the works, especially from 1964-71, are horribly dry in invention and lack real inspiration.

This is a comment I've often read, but I bet everyone who agreed with it would come up with a completely different set of works they regarded as "off-day" pieces.
And would you prefer them to be "horribly wet"? Or to have "false inspration"?

And what is "real inspiration": a quantifiable thing or just another way of saying "I like this piece"?

[Mary Chambers]

I think Tear was only responding to initial snide remarks by Pears, who was jealous of him and I expect perceived Tear as a threat.

I'm sure Tear thought so! There was certainly one comment by Pears that Tear interpreted that way, but it was pretty innocuous really. I haven't got his autobiography to hand, but I seem to remember he said that on another occasion he was caught 'mincing' (his idea of a joke) by Britten. You can imagine how well that went down.

[amateur51]

I'm sure Tear thought so! There was certainly one comment by Pears that Tear interpreted that way, but it was pretty innocuous really. I haven't got his autobiography to hand, but I seem to remember he said that on another occasion he was caught 'mincing' (his idea of a joke) by Britten. You can imagine how well that went down.

Well 'twas ever thus, Mary - homosexual panic is how the Met now refers to it

[Suffolkcoastal]

By dry and uninspired, I mean basically going through the motions without conviction. I like the first two church parables, but The Prodigal Son leaves me cold, as if Britten had lost interest in it and just kept going out of duty. The Golden Vanity is just plain ghastly and The Children's Crusade, for the listener, totally uninvolving which is surprising given the subject. When Britten is at his best, one can sense the controlled emotion, is some of these works, the emotion on which he feeds is absent, leaving just controlled technique.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

By dry and uninspired, I mean basically going through the motions without conviction.

But what evidence is there, other than your own opinion, that Britten worked this way?

I like the first two church parables, but The Prodigal Son leaves me cold, as if Britten had lost interest in it and just kept going out of duty.

I assume you mean "it seems to meas if". Again, apart from your subjective response, what is the evidence that Britten "lost interest"? Isn't it more a case of your own lack of interest?

The Golden Vanity is just plain ghastly

In your opinion.

and The Children's Crusade, for the listener, totally uninvolving which is surprising given the subject.

Again, I think you mean "for this listener.

When Britten is at his best, one can sense the controlled emotion, is some of these works, the emotion on which he feeds is absent, leaving just controlled technique.

Again, I think it's more a case of "the emotion on which you feed" that is absent, Suffy.

In case I'm accused of "getting over fussy", I don't doubt your sincere response to these works, nor wish to stop you voicing your opinions. But I think it important to distinguish between expressing dislike of a work, and ascribing such dislike to a weakness in the works without citing evidence from those works (or elsewhere: a series of letters from BB saying that he was bored by his work on The Prodigal Son and was only continuing to complete his obligations to the performers and the commissioners, for example) that show that the claims you make of and for them are valid.

As I said earlier, many people who admire Britten's work might agree that there are pieces of his that they can't get on with, or find "cold" or merely "clever" or "facile". But I bet that as soon as they read each others' lists of such works, the agreement ends and the fisticuffs begin.

Best Wishes.

[Mary Chambers]

I know what Suffolkcoastal means, but of course it is subjective. I rather like The Golden Vanity, and it's lovely to see the Vienna Boys rehearsing it on the Britten and his Festival DVD that's just been issued (Tony Palmer's film about the 1967 Aldeburgh Festival). Children's Crusade I find quite powerful, but not a piece I really want to return to often. Prodigal Son - I've never seen it performed, but it doesn't appeal. I'm not keen on Plomer's libretto.

I've often said I don't like Owen Wingrave - to me that's the only failure among the operas.

IF there is a falling off of inspiration at this time of BB's life, rather than just increased introspection and a change in approach, I would think it's partly the result of his extremely poor health at that date, and the fact that his emotional energy was already going into Death in Venice, which was certainly already in his mind.

[Sir Velo]

Sir Velo
I understand your comment, and I am a huge admirer of Britten, but I don't think it can be denied that he did discard some of his associates. When Robert Tear accepted an offer from Glyndebourne instead of continuing with the English Opera Group he was declared persons non grata at Aldeburgh, and once discussed this rather ruefully in an interview some years after the composer's death.

Ferret, with respect we are only being given Tear's side of the story. Would you honestly expect him to say "Look I made some catty remarks about Peter and Ben behind their back which, when they got to hear of it, they justifiably cold-shouldered me"? Moreover, perhaps he had given his word that he would stay with EOG. In which case, Britten would have felt justifiably betrayed don't you think?

The point is there are always two sides to these stories. I expect some of the cases we hear about are probably tiresome sycophants (of which Britten's circle would have comprised more than a few) whom Britten felt he could probably do without; and felt "dropping" was the easiest and least confrontational way of doing this.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have nothing against subjectivism, and have indulged in it in the majority of my Posts. I do think, however, that we should try to avoid couching subjective responses in terms that suggest that these are "facts", which I think Suffy at least approached in his comments. Now, of course, the obvious riposte is to say "Well of course this is (just) his opinion! Whose opinion is he going to voice else?", which in the case of some contributors would be a fair enough point. But Suffy is one of the most respected and respect-worthy contributors to the Forum, and for him to claim that a work "lacks true inspiration", contains "only cold technique" or is, simply, "ghastly" in the same terms that he would say Begun in 1942 and completed 10 years later by the 80 year old composer, Alfven’s 5th Symphony was completed over 30 years after its predecessor and was amongst the composer’s final works. It retains the composer’s late-romantic idiom, is in 4 movements and lasts somewhat over 50 minutes. requires, I believe, some balancing counter-argument.

Besides, I like Britten's work from the mid-60s: some of it I find much more appealing than some of the stuff he wrote in the '50s - more concerned with purely Musical matters, which I find more exciting and involving to listen to. It's almost as if Suffy was telling me that I am "dry, uninspired, cold amd ghastly"!

What?



Oh.





I see.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Of course these are just opinions, Britten always gets me in to trouble, especially being Lowestoft born and bred. With The Golden Vanity, yes for me it is ghastly and personally I would have expected Britten to have done so much more with it, but I don't believe I'm alone in finding this work rather weak. I don't necessarily feed off any composer's emotion, with some composers once can really sense it, others not at all and I can enjoy both equally. I feel in Britten's case that it is a key element, I know I can't prove it, nobody probably ever can either way. But something seems to me to be missing in many works after the War Requiem until the Third Cello Suite and Death in Venice. Was this an unconscious reaction to having composed a genuinely popular international masterpiece, a reaction that may have caused Britten to become more and possibly too introspective, an introspection that granted, was broken every now and again? Possibly The Maltings Conversion and fire and the ever expanding Aldeburgh Festival drained Britten emotionally too for a time. Whatever it is, I personally feel something is missing when I listen to many of the works from the 1960's, yes I do find something absent from some earlier works, but far less frequently so.
I was of course only guessing with The Prodigal Son, but I've wondered what it is about that work that keeps me at arms length when the other Parables don't (Mary might have hit on something with the Plomer libretto which I don't like). Did Britten get bored, having already used the same formula twice, is there then an unconscious case that the spirit was willing but the inspiration elsewhere? I know I'm not alone in finding something lacking in this work, I've been to Aldeburgh many times and been involved in many conversations on Britten and others have found it rather cold too, but can't put their finger on why or can I pin them down on why they feel the same from a more technical point of view.
Like Mary, I'm not a particular fan of Owen Wingrave. It never sticks in my memory afterwards and I everytime I listen it bores me, I can't get on with materials/invention, which is the exact opposite reaction to every other Britten opera I listen too. I don't really know why though, what has happened, what is missing. Of course that are rightly others who will argue the opposite. But Britten's music, like the man himself, it seems will continue to divide people.
Anyway I've rambled on long enough!

[Ferretfancy]

Ferret, with respect we are only being given Tear's side of the story. Would you honestly expect him to say "Look I made some catty remarks about Peter and Ben behind their back which, when they got to hear of it, they justifiably cold-shouldered me"? Moreover, perhaps he had given his word that he would stay with EOG. In which case, Britten would have felt justifiably betrayed don't you think?

The point is there are always two sides to these stories. I expect some of the cases we hear about are probably tiresome sycophants (of which Britten's circle would have comprised more than a few) whom Britten felt he could probably do without; and felt "dropping" was the easiest and least confrontational way of doing this.

Sir Velo

I very nearly put a reference to the fact that there must always be two sides to the story. My point really is that it was a very nasty time for anybody to be gay, even if protected to some extent, as Britten certainly was. Come to that, we ought not to assume that all is well now, as the recent discrimination judgements have shown , but this about BB, so I'll say no more.

[Mr Pee]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/9806528/Benjamin-Britten-biography-extract-was-the-composers-death-caused-by-syphilis.html

[amateur51]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...-syphilis.html

I'm not a doctor although I trained as a dentist in the early 70s and undetected syphilis was still sufficiently common for us to be given a pretty thorough education in signs, symptoms and necessary tests. Given that Britten was known to be homosexual (there were not enlightened times) I would have thought that the relatively simple tests for syphilis would have been done, especially in preparation for a major operation on the heart.

The conjunction of bad teeth and rheumatic fever however seems much more likely a cause. We were certainly taught at Guy's to enquire during history-taking about incidents of childhood rheumatic fever which can lead to a damaged heart, particularly heart valves. Even the simplest dental procedure can cause bacteria to be sent around the body, and they can lodge on the damaged heart tissue, causing inflammation and more importantly a friable mass which can break off at any time and cause an embolism which can in turn lead to a stroke, and lung and heart problems.

I'd be interested to hear from our medically trained Board members about this theory

[Mary Chambers]

Contrary to the implications here, this is not a new theory. I've certainly heard it before. Possible, of course, but by no means indisputable fact.

I find the general style of this extract from Kildea's biography rather disappointing. I'd been hoping for something more scholarly and less journalistic. I never quite trust writers who tell us what someone was thinking or feeling, when nobody knows.

I hope the rest of the biography is more factual than this extract, and certainly more accurate than the minor point about Britten's 'garish Paisley shirt'! It was a discreet design of what looks to me like wheatsheaves in white on a brown background (plenty of photo evidence) - not Paisley, and certainly not garish by 1970s standards!

[amateur51]

Contrary to the implications here, this is not a new theory. I've certainly heard it before. Possible, of course, but by no means indisputable fact.

I find the general style of this extract from Kildea's biography rather disappointing. I'd been hoping for something more scholarly and less journalistic. I never quite trust writers who tell us what someone was thinking or feeling, when nobody knows.

I hope the rest of the biography is more factual than this extract, and certainly more accurate than the minor point about Britten's 'garish Paisley shirt'! It was a discreet design of what looks to me like wheatsheaves in white on a brown background (plenty of photo evidence) - not Paisley, and certainly not garish by 1970s standards!

I agree it's a disappointing tone Mary but we have to remember the old equation: garish clothing = suspect homosexual