I preferred the name without Royal !
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Me too. I hardly ever call it that and very rarely do so in the 'What are you listening to now?' thread.Originally posted by Alison View Post
I first came across the Concertgebouw in a BBC film series called 'Great Orchestras of the World' broadcast in February 1973. That film featured Bernard Haitink recording Mahler 1 and I was so thrilled by the music and Haitink's mode of conducting that by the following weekend I had bought his records of Ein Heldenleben and Mahler 1. Little did I realise then that both Haitink and the Concertgebouw (and Mahler) would form such a major part of my life."The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard HaitinkComment
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I attended a concert - one of my first - at the Cliffs Pavilion Westcliff-on-Sea with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Orchestra on 16 May 1965. I haven't got the programme now but I think it included Beethoven's 7th Symphony. I'd be interested to know what else was on and who conducted. Was any one from the forum there?Comment
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The first time I saw the Concertgebouw live was at the Royal Festival Hall in London in February 1979 when Haitink conducted them in Haydn 86 and Mahler 5. Unforgettable evening. Another such was on May 13 1981 in Birmingham Town Hall. Haitink again conducted Debussy orch Escher 6 Epigraph Antiques, Mozart 39 and a blazing, roof-raising Shostakovich 5. Wonderful memories!!"The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard HaitinkComment
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I can offer Haitink and Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra at the Proms :
Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6 "Pathetique", 5th September 1970
and Mahler, Symphony No. 9 3rd September 1970
the latter has lost a few bars at the beginning, sorry
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Enjoyed much of what we heard Saturday with the exception of the Berglund Sibelius. This sounded like nothing other than a 45 played at 33 speed. All the momentum and onward thrust of the music was jettisoned to make it sound like Celibidache on mogadon. Sorry to hear Rob Cowan endorse it.
By the way, shouldn't this thread be on the CD Review forum? It'll be hard to find for future reference otherwise, I suspect.Comment
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I don't think so - it's equally about the orchestra itself, its conductors over the years, and concert experiences of the orchestra and visits to the hall. Triggered, it's true, by that CD Review item, but not about it.Originally posted by Sir Velo View PostEnjoyed much of what we heard Saturday with the exception of the Berglund Sibelius. This sounded like nothing other than a 45 played at 33 speed. All the momentum and onward thrust of the music was jettisoned to make it sound like Celibidache on mogadon. Sorry to hear Rob Cowan endorse it.
By the way, shouldn't this thread be on the CD Review forum? It'll be hard to find for future reference otherwise, I suspect.
"...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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Standard thread recycling by bsp, but with some reasonably just cause, as the KCO has begun to offer videos of recently re-started short concerts, under social distancing guidelines, available for 1 week at their YT channel:
The Beethoven 7 with Gustavo Gimeno looks to be up for longer than a week, though, perhaps as a "celebration" of return to the orchestra making music in the half, albeit at reduced size. If people watch this Beethoven 7, will be interesting to hear others' thoughts on it. Unfortunately, I blanked out on watching GG's Dvorak 8 with the KCO, so that's gone. The current baroque-fest with Ton Koopman on the podium, and Lucie Horsch (daughter of 1st desk cellist Gregor Horsch) is available for a few more days. Bychkov and Tchaikovsky 5 look to be next on the menu, next Friday.Comment
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I've sometimes wondered if they are a 'difficult' orchestra. I don't believe they are paid particularly well (certainly not compared to the BPO) and my experiences of them live (not in their own hall, which must make a big difference) haven't been all that memorable. Jansons didn't get anything like the response he got from the BRSO. I believe Rattle had a brief, unhappy time with them.
On the other hand, the sheer refinement of sound in their recordings (particularly with Haitink) is a wonder. It's probably only rivalled by Szell's Cleveland Orchestra, but without the steeliness that some find off-putting about GS. Haitink's Ravel and Debussy with them is hard to beat.Comment
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The few Jansons recordings that I heard of duplicates between the Concertgebouw and the Bavarians didn’t reveal any clear preference for the latter, IMO. Can you point to a few examples to support your claim?Comment
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I much prefer Jansons’s time with the Bavarians, seemed so much more at ease with this orchestra, plus the fact fact the CDs are more generously filled!Originally posted by richardfinegold View PostDon’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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Yes, the performances he gave at the Proms. Among other pieces they performed Sibelius 2 and Mahler 6. His concerts with the BRSO rank among my outstanding experiences of live music-making. His work with the Pittsburgh Symphony was also exceptional. I have heard Jansons in Mahler 6 with the LSO, by comparison the Concertgebouw sounded flat, and looked (admittedly subjective, but that's true of everything else) rather bored and grumpy. Maybe it was an off-day, but the Sibelius didn't convince me otherwise. It wasn't a surprise that he didn't renew his contract with them but remained with the BRSO.Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post
As I say, totally subjective, but when you're standing only a few feet away you get very definite impressions. In the same way, I always felt that Rattle's tenure with the BPO was an awkward marriage - they didn't look at ease with each other.Comment
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A concert is an ephemeral experience. Ones perceptions can be effected by a host of factors, and in terms of making comparisons to previous concerts, one is relying on “aural memory”. I have a couple of Jansons recordings of repertoire duplicated with the two Orchestras and I find little to choose from. Both are great, world leading ensembles. There is virtually no difference in the interpretations, leading one to ask why anyone bothered to release the second recordings, but then superstar conductors have long thought that every performance of theirs needs to be enshrined for immortality so that is nothing new. If anything, I give the slight nod to the Amsterdam recordings because the recording venueOriginally posted by Darkbloom View Post
Is superior to the Bavarian one.
A lot of great Orchestras can be difficult. New York has long eaten Conductors for breakfast, finding Barbirolli, Rodzinski, Mitropolis, Gilbert, and others unpalatable. I forgot who said guesting in Cleveland In the sixties was like facing a bunch of little Szells. The Vienna PO doesn’t invite just any kapellmeister to stand in front of them.Comment
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Sorry that I didn't think to post about this earlier, but have been partaking of the KCO's "Lockdown Archives" this month, with tomorrow being the last day:
More accurately, I've been partaking of the videos that I hadn't yet seen, from their weekly Friday video postings. The KCO had been posting videos each Friday of performances recorded in the hall over the past year, either with limited audiences or with no audience.
The general quality level is very high, with the orchestra sounding in wonderful condition, as you would expect, if with swings and roundabouts in various aspects. For example:
* Antony Hermus' contemporary concert: had never seen him before in any format. From watching the videos, I'm not a fan at all of his conducting style, which struck me as rather ungainly and inelegant. But the musicians get on with it, and the repertoire (Tristan Keuris et al.) is definitely off the beaten path and well worth hearing, since I'll not here those pieces elsewhere generally (except maybe the Keuris off another recording).
* Pappano's Schumann 2 had a particularly warm sound from the orchestra, and terrific pacing. So I'm not at all worried about how the LSO will sound when he takes over as their chief conductor in 2024.
* Klaus Makela: he's already appeared with the KCO 3 times over the past year, and I now can't help but wonder if they have him in mind as their chief conductor well into the future. (His Sibelius 1 got praise in the Afternoon Concert thread, based on the audio alone, of course.) However, I may have gotten overload from seeing him in so many of these videos. He's in his mid-20's, and everything seems to be going his way with a lot of big opportunities like this falling into his lap. Hopefully it doesn't all go to his head.
* It took a while to dawn on me about the KCO's string seating, generally with the cellos and violas to the conductor's right and the violins all bunch on the left, i.e. the American style of string section seating. This actually shocked me, as I thought that the KCO would go with antiphonal violins and the more "traditional" continental European layout. Philippe Herreweghe and Daniel Harding used divided violins in their performances. I'll have to look up older Haitink videos to see how far back this practice dates.
Anyway, all things considered, these videos have been a nice way to "binge-watch" the KCO, over the course of a month.Comment
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