'Wobble'

[rauschwerk]

I have often thought that if I had the time and money I might write a treatise on vibrato with particular reference to the singing voice. A recent use of the term 'wobble' on these boards was in connection with Deborah Voigt's singing in Les Troyens. I attended that screening and although I would agree that her singing was characterised by vibrato (rather more than Susan Graham's) it was certainly not wobbly. I must accept, therefore, that others heard it differently.

A singer applies vibrato in either or both of two ways: modulation of the pitch (frequency) or of the volume (amplitude). With little vibrato it is hard for the ear to distinguish between the two. I prefer to reserve the term 'wobble' to refer to excessive frequency modulation, particularly when the singer does not seem to be in control of it. Dudley Moore cleverly caricatured the singing of Peter Pears partly by exaggerating his slight wobble, and as time went by Pears's voice became more wobbly in just that way. Part of my treatise (which, the world will be relieved to know, I shall not be writing) would examine how the placing of microphones and hall acoustics can affect the listener's perceptions of voices.

Anyhow, I think I now understand better the aversion which many on these boards have to the sound of some singers. What they hear as 'wobble', it would seem that I hear only as vibrato and most of the time it doesn't bother me.

[Richard Tarleton]

Interesting stuff. As an amateur opera buff, I suppose the cases of wobble that spring to mind are either older singers who have gone on too long, and find it a strain, or singers who are overparted, and find it a strain. Is it to do with straining the voice? I'd suggest Gwyneth Jones (whom I heard once, at the end of her career) as an example of the former, and Susan Bullock, whom I heard in the recent Ring, of the latter. The discussion of how the latter came over on the radio in the Ring thread was interesting, and microphone placing clearly a big issue. But I find that a wobbly singer also induces feelings of tension and discomfort in me.

[Flay]

Remember Hoffnung's tenor? "Off/on, volume: ppp-fff, Wobble, Sob

[rauschwerk]

Is it to do with straining the voice? I'd suggest Gwyneth Jones (whom I heard once, at the end of her career) as an example of the former, and Susan Bullock, whom I heard in the recent Ring, of the latter.

I think wobble sometimes has to do with vocal strain in older singers. I heard Gwyneth Jones in 1966, when she was 30, and to my ears her voice was already wobbly. I'm not familiar with Susan Bullock's singing, but then I don't listen to Wagner operas.

Wobble makes me uncomfortable too, but I think I'm more tolerant of it than some.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The increase is wobble and deterioration of the singing voice does seem to affect women more than men, though there are notable exceptionsn such a Monserat Cabaiile, who sang wonderfully well beyond her years. It affects choirs; the Cambridge Singer sound youthful and pure on their earlier recording, but have suffered from wobblers in more recent times. I'll pass over the BBC Singers
Joan Sutherland knew when to retire. Others have tried to hang on,which is very das, as it does no favours to their reputations.

[MrGongGong]

The discussion of how the latter came over on the radio in the Ring thread was interesting, and microphone placing clearly a big issue. .

Can you explain how you think microphone placement would affect the perception of frequency modulation ?
I can think of a few environments where that might be the case (huge acoustics , ultra close miking etc ) but not sure if that would be true in the Opera house ?
I didn't hear the broadcast so can't really comment BUT have heard substantial parts of the production on the show relay in various parts of the ROH (not exactly "audiophile" quality though !).
Or was the image such that the singers were 'in front' of everything else ?

[rauschwerk]

Can you explain how you think microphone placement would affect the perception of frequency modulation ?

I'll have a try (excuse me, Richard). My hypothesis is that it has to do with the balance of direct and reverberant sound (I imagine that Ferretfancy might be able to enlighten us here). The ear simultaneously hears the wobbly voice and a very large number of delayed versions which tend to disguise the wobble. (I assume here that the period of the wobble - around 100 ms? - is small compared with reverberation time). This is true of a reverberant recording or what we hear in a rear seat in a reverberant auditorium.

[Quarky]

Can you explain how you think microphone placement would affect the perception of frequency modulation ?

Phase shift / variation as perceived by listener??

Which might affect different frequencies differently???

[ahinton]

Vibrato and wobble are not synonymous. One soprano whom I know and who is renowned for her performances of new music once mentioned to me her view that some singers adopt it to cover up their pitch uncertainties when trying to sing some of the more difficult contemporary repertoire - and she should know!...

[Flay]

... some singers adopt it to cover up their pitch uncertainties when trying to sign some of the more difficult contemporary repertoire - and she should know!...

I feel sure some would prefer certain singers to sign rather than than sing!

I have to agree that sometimes I really cannot work out the exact notes being sung.

[rauschwerk]

[QUOTE=Oddball;246675][QUOTE=MrGongGong;246665]Can you explain how you think microphone placement would affect the perception of frequency modulation ?

Phase shift / variation as perceived by listener??

Which might affect different frequencies differently???

I believe it could be explained in those terms. A phenomenon like this can be studied in either the time or the frequency domain. Amplitude and frequency modulation both produce sidebands centred on the fundamental pitch, and the difference between them has to do with the phase relationship of the sideband components (I hazily recollect from many years ago).

[rauschwerk]

Vibrato and wobble are not synonymous.

Absolutely! But, hearing being such a subjective process, I can never be sure that what I perceive as vibrato might be perceived as wobble by someone else.

[ahinton]

I feel sure some would prefer certain singers to sign rather than than sing!

You're probably as right as my typo was misleading! Anyway, now corrected - thanks!

[cloughie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCVXf1H-dgg

You'd expect wobble here.

[rauschwerk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCVXf1H-dgg

You'd expect wobble here.

Oh dear. Talk about boring!