Britten and Wagner Anniversaries: Nothing to Celebrate?

[Mary Chambers]

Thank you, Mary. Isn't there also a new book of Britten photographs?

I do hope that this year will concentrate on the music and not on Britten's private life and Wagner's political views.

Britten in Pictures, by Lucy Walker - an excellent collection, and remarkably insightful and revealing. Also, the last volume of Britten's Letters has recently appeared. It's a vintage year for Britten fans! Presumably there will be nothing more for years after this, but as you say, it's the music that matters in the end.

[Bryn]

I didn't misuse the term 'alleged', though I'm aware of the problem you always have with comprehension: Wagner has been accused of all manner of wicked things by people who are not in possession of the facts about his life - I have read one writer, for instance, who claimed that RW was 'a personal friend' of Hitler, that he was associated with political anti-semitism in Germany (he wasn't) and that he wore white gloves when conducting Mendelsohhn (a good story, but apochryphal).

It is unfortunate that Wagner took the trouble to articulate some anti-semitic views in a published work - but those views were fairly unremarkable (and widely shared) during the 19th century. Wagner only takes the rap because he went to the trouble of putting them down in black and white.

Calling Wagner a raving anti-semite is about as truthful as calling Karajan a raving Nazi: one professed not to like Jews and the other joined a racist Party - but their words/actions only tell a tiny part of the whole story.

The problem with comprehension appears to lie entirely with you. Perhaps the term "alleged" is new to you? Try consulting a few dictionaries. Raising daft anachronistic claims to by others to support your apologism re. Wagner's anti-Semitism is frankly dishonest in this discussion. Certainly anti-Semitism was, and sadly remains, widespread, but Wagner's decision to put his views in print, not just once, in a publication of limited distribution, but also,in revised form, when he had a much larger audience, marks him out as a minor ideologue of anti-Semitism in the field of high culture, not a mere camp-follower.

[VodkaDilc]

Britten in Pictures, by Lucy Walker - an excellent collection, and remarkably insightful and revealing. Also, the last volume of Britten's Letters has recently appeared. It's a vintage year for Britten fans! Presumably there will be nothing more for years after this, but as you say, it's the music that matters in the end.

I must buy the Lucy Walker book. I recall that the Elgar book I go back to most often is "A Life in Pictures" by Jerrold Northrop Moore, so I'm hoping it's as good as that. I'm still a volume behind on Britten's Letters, but have found the whole series fascinating and I must order the latest one. I wonder if there will be collections of a composer's emails in future decades - probably not! We are fortunate that Britten's correspondence survives.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder if there will be collections of a composer's emails in future decades - probably not!

I'm collecting all Alistair Hinton's posts to the Forum; I call it my pension plan!

[amateur51]

I'm collecting all Alistair Hinton's posts to the Forum; I call it my pension plan!

Scamp!

[Mr Pee]

I'm collecting all Alistair Hinton's posts to the Forum; I call it my pension plan!

If you get a pound for every word, you'll be a very wealthy man.......

[ahinton]

I'm collecting all Alistair Hinton's posts to the Forum; I call it my pension plan!

Oh, mon Dieu! I can see Lord Leveson walking up the garden path already! - and I fear for pitifully minuscule vale of your pension when you came to vest it!

To return to the topic, Wagner's anti-Semitism is indeed not a fiction but a fact of which he provided ample evidence in his own hand. That he was one of the greatest composers in the Western canon is also a fact. There is no need to fabricate an attempt to ignore the former in order to feel comfortable with the latter. The arguments for and against music having anything to do with politics may rumble on and on, but it might not be a bad idea to stop for a moment to consider whether the music of Wagner would have been any better or worse had he not held and expressed anti-Semitic views. ONe might ask the same of Chopin who, although far more discreet about it than Wagner could ever be, was also guilty of anti-Semitism and I have little doubt that this influenced his professed views on Mendelssohn in ways not dissimilar to Wagner's (although, again, Chopin's reservations about his slightly earlier contemporary were more reservedly expressed than were Wagner's), yet this no more interfered with his warm friendship with Alkan - another of this year's bicentenary candidates - than it discouraged Wagner from working with Jews.

[ahinton]

If you get a pound for every word, you'll be a very wealthy man.......

He'll be lucky to get a penny for every sentence but he might prefer even the few crumbs offered by that than he would the outcome of investing a few litres of Pee...

[MrGongGong]

I think reading this would be useful .........

http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9780511627309&cid=CBO9780511627309A010

[kernelbogey]

I urge all members posting to this thread to remind themselves before pressing 'submit' of the actual thread title:

Britten and Wagner Anniversaries: Nothing to Celebrate?

Given the output of these two composers and their music and status, it would be unfortunate for the thread to become preoccupied with just one aspect of Wagner's reputation.

kb, Host

[David-G]

I urge all members posting to this thread to remind themselves before pressing 'submit' of the actual thread title:

Britten and Wagner Anniversaries: Nothing to Celebrate?

Given the output of these two composers and their music and status, it would be unfortunate for the thread to become preoccupied with just one aspect of Wagner's reputation.

kb, Host

While that is true, in fairness I might point out that this aspect was raised by the original poster, and in a rather provocative manner.

[kernelbogey]

While that is true, in fairness I might point out that this aspect was raised by the original poster, and in a rather provocative manner.

And in the same spirit of fairness I can say that I noted, and have acted upon, that.
kb

[kleines c]

c

[verismissimo]

I urge all members posting to this thread to remind themselves before pressing 'submit' of the actual thread title:

Britten and Wagner Anniversaries: Nothing to Celebrate?

Given the output of these two composers and their music and status, it would be unfortunate for the thread to become preoccupied with just one aspect of Wagner's reputation.

kb, Host

When I read the title, I immediately thought: How interesting. A thread about the artistic influence of Wagner on Britten, conscious and subconscious.

Anyone like to have a shot at that?

[amateur51]

He'll be luck to get a penny for every sentence but he might prefer even the few crumbs offered by that than he would the outcome of investing a few litres of Pee...