Britten and Wagner Anniversaries: Nothing to Celebrate?

[Guest]

I can't say I'm greatly excited at the prospect of these anniversaries.

The Dickens one we've just had seemed to be an almighty damp squib: no concentrated attempt to discuss Dickens, or what he might mean to us now. OK, so his works are always before the public in some form, but an original approach might have been interesting.

Something far more sinister is in store for Britten and Wagner, though, I fear.....

In Britten's case, we can anticipate a lot of unwelcome speculation about his relationships with male children. People like Martin Kettle, for reasons best known to themselves, are very keen on this - and the fact that any solid evidence of impropriety doesn't seem to exist won't deter them.


In the case of Wagner - more predictably - we can expect a lot of opinionated, ignorant nastiness from the usual crew of media yobs, hack journos, pensioned-off leftists and [redacted], who will try (yet again) to convince us that Wagner's works are indelibly tainted by his - alleged - political/cultural stances. They will be up to their usual dirty tricks trying to reduce complex issues into slogans and soundbites. So, those of a like mind might be advised to avoid the 'Culture' (ha!) section of the Guardian, where most of this rubbish will be given a home.

Personally, I shall be doing my best to ignore all the hoopla and just concentrating on the music (which is, in the end, what it's all about).

[Bryn]

... his - alleged - political/cultural stances. ...

"alleged"? He may have used a pseudonym for the first publication of Das Judenthum in der Musik but not for the later revised version or his many, many later anti-Semitic rants.

It did not stop him working with Jewish musicians etc. though, that's true.

[David-G]

... fascistic Israelites...

A phrase worthy of Wagner himself.

[Mandryka]

"alleged"? He may have used a pseudonym for the first publication of Das Judenthum in der Musik but not for the later revised version or his many, many later anti-Semitic rants.

It did not stop him working with Jewish musicians etc. though, that's true.

Does not the FACT that he worked with/employed and was (moderately) friendly with some Jewish musicians somewhat undermine the line he took in his published works?

[Mary Chambers]

There are two new biographies of Britten due in February, which I will read with a critical mind. I'm older than either of the biographers, which I feel gives me a clearer view of the times he lived in.

Of course, there will be yet more speculation about his private life but I'm used to that, and in any case I find it interesting, up to a point. Much of the writing will be rubbish, no doubt. (I'm a cynic.)

After several years of listening and watching, I've decided Wagner isn't for me.

[VodkaDilc]

There are two new biographies of Britten due in February, which I will read with a critical mind. I'm older than either of the biographers, which I feel gives me a clearer view of the times he lived in.

Of course, there will be yet more speculation about his private life but I'm used to that, and in any case I find it interesting, up to a point. Much of the writing will be rubbish, no doubt. (I'm a cynic.)


After several years of listening and watching, I've decided Wagner isn't for me.

I know about the Kildea biography, but what's the other one?

[Black Swan]

Amazon lists Neil Powell and David Mathews as well for Britten biographies. I already have the Humphrey Carter Biography. I plan on enjoying the music of Britten and Wagner, as I always do, and paying no attention to the blather and hoopla involved in the anniversary celebrations.

[Bryn]

Does not the FACT that he worked with/employed and was (moderately) friendly with some Jewish musicians somewhat undermine the line he took in his published works?

A point I covered in my second sentence. It was you misuse of the term "alleged" that I was challenging. His anti-Semitism was not some sort of fiction.

[Flosshilde]

I think the 2nd edition of 'Judaism in music' was rather more emphatically anti-Semitic than the first (which, it has been suggested, was written more as an attack on the French musical establishment after his lack of success in Paris). Cosima's views were, I think, rather stronger than Richard's, & her diaries weren't always an accurate record of what R said.

[Mandryka]

A point I covered in my second sentence. It was you misuse of the term "alleged" that I was challenging. His anti-Semitism was not some sort of fiction.

I didn't misuse the term 'alleged', though I'm aware of the problem you always have with comprehension: Wagner has been accused of all manner of wicked things by people who are not in possession of the facts about his life - I have read one writer, for instance, who claimed that RW was 'a personal friend' of Hitler, that he was associated with political anti-semitism in Germany (he wasn't) and that he wore white gloves when conducting Mendelsohhn (a good story, but apochryphal).

It is unfortunate that Wagner took the trouble to articulate some anti-semitic views in a published work - but those views were fairly unremarkable (and widely shared) during the 19th century. Wagner only takes the rap because he went to the trouble of putting them down in black and white.

Calling Wagner a raving anti-semite is about as truthful as calling Karajan a raving Nazi: one professed not to like Jews and the other joined a racist Party - but their words/actions only tell a tiny part of the whole story.

[MrGongGong]

Calling Wagner a raving anti-semite is about as truthful as calling Karajan a raving Nazi: one professed not to like Jews and the other joined a racist Party - but their words/actions only tell a tiny part of the whole story.

which is PART of the story nonetheless
doing the "music has nothing to do with politics" thing just highlights ignorance IMV

[Mandryka]

I think the 2nd edition of 'Judaism in music' was rather more emphatically anti-Semitic than the first (which, it has been suggested, was written more as an attack on the French musical establishment after his lack of success in Paris). Cosima's views were, I think, rather stronger than Richard's, & her diaries weren't always an accurate record of what R said.

I've heard it posited that Wagner's anti-semitism had its origins in his dislike/lack of respect for Meyerbeer (who also represented another one of his hated archetypes - the capitalist).

Having read Cosima's Diaries, I'm fairly certain that her views on these matters were a LOT stronger than his.

[Mary Chambers]

Amazon lists Neil Powell and David Mathews as well for Britten biographies.

I was thinking of the Paul Kildea and Neil Powell biographies. The David Matthews one has been out for some time - good, but short.

In May there will be Britten's Century, edited by Mark Bostridge (Ian's brother), which seems to be a collection of essays.

[VodkaDilc]

I was thinking of the Paul Kildea and Neil Powell biographies. The David Matthews one has been out for some time - good, but short.

In May there will be Britten's Century, edited by Mark Bostridge (Ian's brother), which seems to be a collection of essays.

Thank you, Mary. Isn't there also a new book of Britten photographs?

I do hope that this year will concentrate on the music and not on Britten's private life and Wagner's political views.

[Alf-Prufrock]

I am certainly going to celebrate Britten in my own way. I fell in love with his music as a teenager, many moons ago, and the attachment has only increased. I found out just before Christmas that I had nearly all his opuses (as well as his operas) (I nearly wrote 'opera' for 'opuses', pedant as I am) on either DVD or CD or both, and spent some money buying the remaining ones. The last one home is 'Who are these children?' opus 84, a work I have never heard.

I have now started on a year-long odyssey playing the opus numbers in order. Yesterday I reached and played opus 7, 'Friday Afternoons', which is a stunningly good set of songs for children's choir. The New Year Carol quite overwhelmed me with its beauty. One is impressed with Britten's ingenuity and melodiousness, qualities I admire in music, unfashionable as that view may be. His ingenuity used to be dismissed as mere cleverness by hosts of British critics, and that always annoyed me. Though I would not mind being classed as clever myself.

A great phase awaits me now - op 8 Our Hunting Fathers, op 10 Frank Bridge Variations, op 13 Piano Concerto, op 15 Violin Concerto (Haendel, whey hey). The first opera comes at 17, Paul Bunyan, which I have not heard for years. I really think I am on a great idea here.

Wagner and Verdi I sample in small doses.