Brahms: Piano concerti nos 1 & 2

[CallMePaul]

I like them all, the two pc's, and the double. I still love that cycle that the CoE gave with Harnoncourt, of the symphonies and concerti. Cannot remember the pianist's name?

It was Rudolf Buchbinder. Last year he issued a new recording of the concerti with the VPO/ Zubin Mehta.

[jayne lee wilson]

The Sunwook Kim recording of the B Flat is very lovely too and how wonderful the Halle sound Barbirolli would have loved how wonderful his orchestra is now .

I wish I could get someone else to try this... (just played the finale again....such lightness and grace, wit and fire...How did they do that, in one performance? Astonishing.)



AS I said a few weeks ago....

I've recently been listening to this.... live from Carnegie Hall February 1948.... (Pristine flac download 16/44.1/playback WAVs, Audirvana+Integer2)

Despite some sonic problems - acetate surface noise a little higher than average for the time, a tendency to some indistinctness at lower levels, occasional peak distortion - you can easily appreciate that miraculous Toscaninian ability to switch from power and energy to lightness and grace, and Horowitz's astonishing, almost bar-to-bar chameleonic rubato which is an essential part of his individualistic expression of the work's passing moods. Toscanini's effortless orchestral response not only keeps up but seems to inspire the soloist in itself. Which means I don't mind the audience applauding well before the 1st movement's final chord has faded, and to a lesser extent that of the finale too. You really can't blame them.

Listening to various recordings from the 1930s to the 1950s - Knappertsbusch, Furtwänger, Toscanini - has revealed to me why I've so often felt detached from more recent recordings of Brahms, Beethoven, Bruckner and others: that very individuality that needs rubato to bring the music to life as a personal emotional involvement, in the moment, instead of a sense of detached observation or reverence, even if energetically and dynamically responsive. I'd love to hear younger conductors and soloists doing something similar more often, but perhaps it really is lost for ever...

...OK, just heard the Sunwook Kim/Elder performance of the Brahms B flat's first movement via Qobuz HiFi lossless.... no balance problems here, well enough played and recorded, each to her own as ever; but how slow, stately, unvarying and complacent it sounds after Horowitz/Toscanini, even if the comparison to that mercurial one-off may seem a little unfair. I was soon losing interest, that old familiar feeling of knowing how the rest is going to go, far too soon....
Timings tell you lot here: 18'56 for Kim, 16'26 for Horowitz. Going back to the opening in the latter you're instantly gripped by the urgency, the drama and pathos of the first solo - then Toscanini thrillingly charges in with his lithe leonine orchestra at their finest!
I was genuinely shocked at just how superior it sounds....
(Overall timings 50'54 to 44'23!).

You can try the allegro non troppo in mp3 here... (Andrew Rose tells me that lossless streaming will be available at Pristine later this year...)

https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-arturo-toscanini/products/pasc092

(Scroll down for Fanfare Review...NB - the download sounds a fair bit sweeter...)

[Barbirollians]

It is an interesting performance albeit I have not heard the Pristine transfer but I prefer their incandescent 1939 recording which was on APR.

[BBMmk2]

Jayne, that Horovitz recording looks so sorely tempting!

[LeMartinPecheur]

I prefer their incandescent 1939 recording which was on APR.

I'm getting confused by all these Horovitz/ Toscanini Brahms 2s! I have a live broadcast from 6/5/40 in a Naxos Historical 'twofer' c/w Serenade 1 and Symphony 1 all from the same broadcast (never mind the quality, feel the length).

How well does this one rate? Seem to recall that the sound is pretty crumbly, in this transfer at least

[Andrew250260]

Just picked up a copy of No 2 Solomon/Philarmonia/Dobrowen from a nearby Oxfam shop. Wonderful playing from both pianist and orchestra.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wish I could get someone else to try this... (just played the finale again....such lightness and grace, wit and fire...How did they do that, in one performance? Astonishing.)



AS I said a few weeks ago....

I've recently been listening to this.... live from Carnegie Hall February 1948.... (Pristine flac download 16/44.1/playback WAVs, Audirvana+Integer2)

Despite some sonic problems - acetate surface noise a little higher than average for the time, a tendency to some indistinctness at lower levels, occasional peak distortion - you can easily appreciate that miraculous Toscaninian ability to switch from power and energy to lightness and grace, and Horowitz's astonishing, almost bar-to-bar chameleonic rubato which is an essential part of his individualistic expression of the work's passing moods. Toscanini's effortless orchestral response not only keeps up but seems to inspire the soloist in itself. Which means I don't mind the audience applauding well before the 1st movement's final chord has faded, and to a lesser extent that of the finale too. You really can't blame them.

Listening to various recordings from the 1930s to the 1950s - Knappertsbusch, Furtwänger, Toscanini - has revealed to me why I've so often felt detached from more recent recordings of Brahms, Beethoven, Bruckner and others: that very individuality that needs rubato to bring the music to life as a personal emotional involvement, in the moment, instead of a sense of detached observation or reverence, even if energetically and dynamically responsive. I'd love to hear younger conductors and soloists doing something similar more often, but perhaps it really is lost for ever...

...OK, just heard the Sunwook Kim/Elder performance of the Brahms B flat's first movement via Qobuz HiFi lossless.... no balance problems here, well enough played and recorded, each to her own as ever; but how slow, stately, unvarying and complacent it sounds after Horowitz/Toscanini, even if the comparison to that mercurial one-off may seem a little unfair. I was soon losing interest, that old familiar feeling of knowing how the rest is going to go, far too soon....
Timings tell you lot here: 18'56 for Kim, 16'26 for Horowitz. Going back to the opening in the latter you're instantly gripped by the urgency, the drama and pathos of the first solo - then Toscanini thrillingly charges in with his lithe leonine orchestra at their finest!
I was genuinely shocked at just how superior it sounds....
(Overall timings 50'54 to 44'23!).

You can try the allegro non troppo in mp3 here... (Andrew Rose tells me that lossless streaming will be available at Pristine later this year...)

https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-arturo-toscanini/products/pasc092

(Scroll down for Fanfare Review...NB - the download sounds a fair bit sweeter...)

I could not agree more . Rubato was an essential element of the grand style and it seems to have gone the way of the brown ball. I think it’s a combination of too much academic piano teaching and the slightly questionable practice of teachers also serving as jurors on piano competitions. I also think that abundant recording has led to a kind of regression to the mean - no one wants to be an outlier. There also seems to be general agreement that speeds have got slower - from Beethoven performances through to Chopin. It’s used to be relatively easy to tell a Horowitz from a Hoffman or Rachmaninov. There are quite a lot of modern pianists who sound identical.