Brahms: Piano concerti nos 1 & 2

[Nick Armstrong]

Re. the delightful Double Concerto

Nicely done Bryn!

[Tony Halstead]

Nicely done Bryn!

My favourite recordings are Campoli/Navarra/ Barbirolli/ Hallé and Oistrakh/ Rostropovitch/Szell/ Cleveland orch.

[Nick Armstrong]

My favourite recordings are Campoli/Navarra/ Barbirolli/ Hallé and Oistrakh/ Rostropovitch/Szell/ Cleveland orch.

I had the latter. I'm afraid it didn't save it from seeming a dull piece to me.

[Barbirollians]

I had the latter. I'm afraid it didn't save it from seeming a dull piece to me.

I had forgotten the Campoli/ Navarra/Barbirolli - a cracker .

[gurnemanz]

I had the latter. I'm afraid it didn't save it from seeming a dull piece to me.

Inclined to agree. Quite a while ago I bought a Naxos CD of the Double Concerto coupled with the Schumann Cello Concerto with Ilya Kaler (violin), Maria Kliegel (cello) - two works that filled a gap in my collection. It's a nice disc but I haven't played it that much.

[Barbirollians]

Inclined to agree. Quite a while ago I bought a Naxos CD of the Double Concerto coupled with the Schumann Cello Concerto with Ilya Kaler (violin), Maria Kliegel (cello) - two works that filled a gap in my collection. It's a nice disc but I haven't played it that much.

I should put those performances into the worthy rather than scintillating category . I bought them in a service station for a car journey once and they have not been played much since . As for the Schumann - this is a work that Jacqueline du Pre excelled in IMO .

[BBMmk2]

Give or take a few 'm' s and 'n' s, yes Bbm!

Ofcourse, Cali!!

I have the Nelson Freire, Chailly, didn't take to it, at all!

[Bryn]

Cage referred to what Nyman labelled "minimalism" in music as "the new convivial music". For me, Beethoven's Triple and Brahms's Double are examples of the old convivial music, and very fine examples of it too.

[Barbirollians]

Agreed re those two concertos . I was lucky enough to come to them through the classic coupling of the Oistrakh/Knushevistsky/Oborin /Sargent and the Oistrakh/Fournier /Galleira on EMI Eminence and these remain great performances .

[cloughie]

Agreed re those two concertos . I was lucky enough to come to them through the classic coupling of the Oistrakh/Knushevistsky/Oborin /Sargent and the Oistrakh/Fournier /Galleira on EMI Eminence and these remain great performances .

Another equally good pair of performances were of similar vintage on DG with Fricsay conducting Schneiderhan and Starker in the Brahms and Schneiderhan, Anda and Fournier in the Beethoven.

[Suffolkcoastal]

For me both Brahms Piano Concertos have plus and minus points.

The 1st I find the more convincing structually, remembering that it started life as a Sonata for two pianos and then became a symphony, before ending up as a concerto. The piano writing is perhaps less classically pianistic.

The 2nd, after a fine 1st movement, I don't find quite so convincing as a whole, though the piano writing is better integrated with the orchestra and technically more demanding. The orchestration too has great clarity, showing his individual orchestration had developed.

Having just listened to the Double Concerto again with the score, it has some very appealing sections, the slow movement is lovely. The Concerto however has too many pauses within the movements, the 1st in particular. The finale seems to ends with an unsatisfactory abruptness, almost as if Brahms was in a hurry to finish it.

As a whole, for me, the Violin Concerto is the most completely satisfying as an overall work, and rightly deserves its place as one of the great concertos.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

They're all "completely satisfying as ... overall work(s), rightly deserving their" reputations as amongst the very greatest of Concertos. The flaws we may detect tell us about ourselves, not the works.

[Pulcinella]

... why is Hornspieler digressing from the subject of the Opening Post ?

Some of the blame attaches to me, because of my comment in post #32, I suspect.

(Hanging head in shame emoticon!)

[vinteuil]

"The flaws we may detect tell us about ourselves, not the works."

... a leetle sententious?

Are you claiming that these pertick'ler works are above / beyond criticism?

Or are you making the still stronger claim that the fault always lies within the hearer, never within the work?

[rauschwerk]

They're all "completely satisfying as ... overall work(s), rightly deserving their" reputations as amongst the very greatest of Concertos. The flaws we may detect tell us about ourselves, not the works.

Yes, so long as we accept that we are not being told about faults within ourselves, save perhaps that of nit-picking over masterpieces. I can't for one moment accept that the Brahms Double Concerto is 'rubbish' as HS opines. Brahms set himself the challenge of writing a classical concerto for two instruments of widely differing compasses. Mozart went for violin and viola, whereas Beethoven used a piano to fill in the gap. If what he produced doesn't satisfy every listener, that's too bad. I have always found it a thoroughly satisfying piece.