"Britten's Boys" article in The Guardian

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

nope the Mail readership will be dumber .... in general population terms left leaners are higher IQ Simon ..... but it depends what you think of IQ eh .... and i am sure you will find that the reading age of the respective texts is similarly lower in the Mail .....

[Barbirollians]

I seem to recall that too, but my point was to seek, for the sake or proportionate and reasonable response, to identify a meaningful distinction between what might have been unwitting emotional insensitivity and outright acts of pædophilia which, by definition, could only be committed consciously and deliberately.

Well yes I was not equating the two but the damage that emotional abuse can have on children is potentially immense . It does not sadly appear that the way he cut these lads off after they ceased to be useful was unwitting but deliberate - whether he comprehended the impact his behaviour might have had on them is another matter.

[Rolmill]

.... in general population terms left leaners are higher IQ .....

What is the evidence for this assertion, CdaJ?

[Bryn]

What is the evidence for this assertion, CdaJ?

While I feel sure that aka CDJ will demonstrate that it is rather more than mere assertion, let's just remind ourselves of the old saw "'right-wing intellectual' is a contradiction in terms.

Actually, the Daily "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" helps its 'readers' out on this one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

[Thropplenoggin]

Our Bryn does more -ing than Ronnie Ronalde.

[doversoul1]

Well yes I was not equating the two but the damage that emotional abuse can have on children is potentially immense . It does not sadly appear that the way he cut these lads off after they ceased to be useful was unwitting but deliberate - whether he comprehended the impact his behaviour might have had on them is another matter.

I think we should remember that it is relatively recent that we came to understand how seriously children were affected by the way they were treated by adults. I don’t think Britten had any guidance or reference about his feelings other than his own sense of moral. He would have been able to understand his feelings much better and behave differently had the knowledge we have now been available to him. This does not change the fact but it seems that Britten made enormous effort not to physically hurt the boys he was attracted to. Was there not a dramatised radio programme (a long time ago)? I only remember the fragments but Britten’s pain about his feelings for boys came across very well.

I even wonder if The Guardian’s editor ever thought about publishing this article had there been no Savile scandal. I am very disappointed by the paper. What are we supposed to understand or think about from this article?

[mercia]

the fact that my own first musical experiences, though alone powerful enough to catapult me into musical study, were by no means of music written for children (I don't think that one could reasonably describe Chopin's F minor Ballade or Ravel's piano trio or Mallarmé songs as kiddies' stuff)

if you're saying the first thing you learnt to play on the piano was the Chopin F minor Ballade, I salute your prodigious talent

[Bryn]

re. #35:

Always happy to hear some AWK.

[ahinton]

if you're saying the first thing you learnt to play on the piano was the Chopin F minor Ballade, I salute your prodigious talent

And, had that been true (however improbable), you might be right to but, of course, I was referring to listening experiences, as I'd hoped would be plainly obvious!...

[ahinton]

Well yes I was not equating the two but the damage that emotional abuse can have on children is potentially immense . It does not sadly appear that the way he cut these lads off after they ceased to be useful was unwitting but deliberate - whether he comprehended the impact his behaviour might have had on them is another matter.

It's that last bit to which I specifically sought to draw attention; of course the actual cutting off itself could hardly have been other than deliberate (if also careless and insensitive) but it was specifically his apparent lack of comprehension of that impact to which I'd intended to refer by my use of the word "unwittingly".

[mercia]

I was referring to listening experiences, as I;d hoped would be plainly obvious!...

..... and in my original post I was referring to children's participation in music, by way of singing or playing [as I had hoped was obvious]

[ahinton]

I think we should remember that it is relatively recent that we came to understand how seriously children were affected by the way they were treated by adults. I don’t think Britten had any guidance or reference about his feelings other than his own sense of moral. He would have been able to understand his feelings much better and behave differently had the knowledge we have now been available to him. This does not change the fact but it seems that Britten made enormous effort not to physically hurt the boys he was attracted to. Was there not a dramatised radio programme (a long time ago)? I only remember the fragments but Britten’s pain about his feelings for boys came across very well.

I don't recall such a programme but agree that our understanding of such issues is far greater now than it was in Britten's lifetime - or, at the very least, we have far less excuse now for failing to understand them; Britten's widely recognised generosity of spirit towards other musicians alone demonstrates his sensitivity in wanting to help people and the fact that he appears to have been somewhat blind to the potential and actual ill-effects of some of his behaviour, whilst not in itself excusable for someone of his intelligence, might be easier to understand if one also takes on board the sheer amount of energy and time that he devoted to encouraging and helping others, perhaps on occasion to the exclusion of better understanding of how he might have treated certain individuals (and see my response to Barbirollians on this aspect of the subject)

I even wonder if The Guardian’s editor ever thought about publishing this article had there been no Savile scandal. I am very disappointed by the paper. What are we supposed to understand or think about from this article?

I did ponder on precisely that myself when first weighing in on this thread...

[BBMmk2]

Just caught this thread and omg Martin Kettle jumping on this sudden 'bandwagon' of untrue, sofar, stories of boys and Briotten.

Who else are they going to try and demure next?

[Mary Chambers]

Was there not a dramatised radio programme (a long time ago)? I only remember the fragments but Britten’s pain about his feelings for boys came across very well.

You're probably thinking of the radio play 'The Ceremony of Innocence'. I remember it had excellent central performances by Simon Russell Beale as Britten and Julian Wadham as Pears. I can't quite remember who wrote it, though - I think he was called Martin something. (Probably not Martin Kettle!)

Incidentally, I did not say that the Guardian had more intelligent readers than the Mail. I said I thought it was a more intelligent paper. That's based on what I see of the Mail online and a discarded copy on a train. I can't say anything about its regular readers, because as far I'm aware I don't know anyone who reads it

EDIT: The play was by Martyn Wade.

[doversoul1]

Mary
Thank you. I have often thought about this play but have never been able to track it. Here it is, after all these years.

http://www.radiolistings.co.uk/programmes/c/ce/ceremony_of_innocence__the.html