Shostakovich 4: anyone else got a 'problem piece' by a beloved composer?

[EdgeleyRob]

All I mean when I use the word 'get' is whatever makes Shostakovich #4 appeal to you rather than Wagner... 'get' for me is a mixture of liking what I'm hearing, and 'getting' or grasping what the writer is trying to say.

For me anyway (and I think people's response to music varies widely) it's like hearing someone talking to you - sometimes you just 'get' and really like the person, what they're saying, the way they're saying it, the emotion behind what they're saying, the emotion it inspires in you as you listen to them ... Sometimes, you just don't!

Well put Caliban.

I really have a problem with the music of Sibelius.
I don't get it and it doesn't get me.
Why this is I really don't understand and can't explain.It used to really bother me why it should be so.
It's clearly great music and the symphonies are obviously major masterpieces,but when I listen (which is very rarely nowadays,although I do have the symphonies,tone poems and violin concerto in my collection) I'm just left thinking 'so what',in your words 'I don't like what I'm hearing'.
I have a friend who is an absolute Sibelius nut and he thinks I'm crazy.Maybe I am,or perhaps one day it will just click

[teamsaint]

Bryn i'm gonna use this approach - thanks!

I think the thing to do is not worry too much...enjoy, and be open minded that there may be things in the music that can be revealed by discussion, close listening or reading, or that you may have missed in your own listening.

stick with it ...i spent most of the last 40 years listening to Rock/pop/etc, and there is much wonderful music there. But there are endless riches to discover in classical music..and right here on the FOR3 Forum is where to find help in discovering them.
there is a house expert on almost everything!!


(As for the uni music soc and its tendency....thats just life.There are plenty of people on this board who have little or no formal training..but boy, do they know their music.)

[richardfinegold]

i am confused - didn't realise you had to 'get it' or 'understand it'. maybe classical music isn't for me after all been playing loads of cds from my dad's collection (while he's outta the country ) and loading loads of stuff onto my ipod, notebook etc. Metal, punk classic etc. - don't think Wagner is for me, but i like Shostakovich #4, sugarcubes, jam, karajans 1963 beethoven cds, king crimson and Zeppelin.

went to the unis music soc and it was soooo anal. cant i just like things or do i have to intellectualise it?

I think that you have the Classical Music bug already Roberta. If you enjoy listening to something as challenging as Shostakovich/4, then you are hooked.
Don't worry if certain works or composers don't click right now with you. Some of them may at a later time, and if certain composers never light your fire, enjoy the ones that do.
You don't have to feel obligated to renounce other types of non classical music that you enjoy. The composer Rossini once said "The only bad music is the boring kind.". Now he thought that Beethoven was boring, and Beethoven returned the favor.
Wagner doesn't particularly float my boat. He was very important historically for his innovations but I prefer to hear the techniques that he pioneered (mainly the new orchestral colors, or "chromaticism") employed by composers that were influenced by him, such as Mahler or Richard Strauss.
Finally, keep in mind that many of us posting here are not the typical Classical Music lover. Many of us are obsessive about it, owning multiple versions of favorite works, attending every concert that we can, etc. so if occasionally one of us goes off the rails and badgers you to try something, keep that in mind. Tolerate us, try some of our suggestions perhaps, but remember that if your level of commitment does not approach that of someone like myself, it isn't something that you need worry about.

[Petrushka]

I think that you have the Classical Music bug already Roberta. If you enjoy listening to something as challenging as Shostakovich/4, then you are hooked.
Don't worry if certain works or composers don't click right now with you. Some of them may at a later time, and if certain composers never light your fire, enjoy the ones that do.
You don't have to feel obligated to renounce other types of non classical music that you enjoy. The composer Rossini once said "The only bad music is the boring kind.". Now he thought that Beethoven was boring, and Beethoven returned the favor.
Wagner doesn't particularly float my boat. He was very important historically for his innovations but I prefer to hear the techniques that he pioneered (mainly the new orchestral colors, or "chromaticism") employed by composers that were influenced by him, such as Mahler or Richard Strauss.
Finally, keep in mind that many of us posting here are not the typical Classical Music lover. Many of us are obsessive about it, owning multiple versions of favorite works, attending every concert that we can, etc. so if occasionally one of us goes off the rails and badgers you to try something, keep that in mind. Tolerate us, try some of our suggestions perhaps, but remember that if your level of commitment does not approach that of someone like myself, it isn't something that you need worry about.

This is fantastic advice and only wish I could have had something like this myself 45 years ago!

Roberta, there is an awful lot that classical music has to offer and you have time on your side to find out what works for you and what doesn't.

Best wishes and happy listening.

[BBMmk2]

i am confused - didn't realise you had to 'get it' or 'understand it'. maybe classical music isn't for me after all been playing loads of cds from my dad's collection (while he's outta the country ) and loading loads of stuff onto my ipod, notebook etc. Metal, punk classic etc. - don't think Wagner is for me, but i like Shostakovich #4, sugarcubes, jam, karajans 1963 beethoven cds, king crimson and Zeppelin.

went to the unis music soc and it was soooo anal. cant i just like things or do i have to intellectualise it?

IMO, I dont think that you have to intellectualise classical music at all. If when you hear some music by any composer, and you think, ah I like this one, it's fine.

It just doesnt matter how you approach the composers music. This is the category I fall into. As you see, Roberta, from my usernam,e, I aminvolved with brass bands too! It doesnt matter wethjer you like the bands you have mentioned(I like those bands too!!); the more variety is the spice ofl life! Go for it and if you like a certain composer'smusic, see what other works he has written too!

[ahinton]

Bryn i'm gonna use this approach - thanks!

You should! - for it's the only one that really matters (and I speak as a composer who has little if any interest in any other way). Delius once said something along that lines that if music cannot and does not stand on its own two feet and speak for itself without needing to be bolstered by verbal explanation, then it is suspect (these were not his exact words which I haven't time now to find in the article in the English journal The Sackbut in which he published them in around 1920 but they represent the gist of what he wrote); his sentiments are quite close in principle, I believe, to what Bryn was writing about - yes, find out all that you want about this, that or the other music but, ultimately and always more importantly, be true to your own personal responses to listening to it and stuff what anyone else might have written or said about it!

I don't think that it would be at all a bad thing were Bryn's words to be framed and compulsorily hung on the walls of every music teaching classroom, frankly...

[roberta]

dear all thanks for the great advice and for taking the trouble to give me a steer.

i am enjoying my musical discoveries and will split my time equally between classical and rock(tonights playlist is Gong- You and Bartok sonata for 2 pianos & percussion)

[teamsaint]

dear all thanks for the great advice and for taking the trouble to give me a steer.

i am enjoying my musical discoveries and will split my time equally between classical and rock(tonights playlist is Gong- You and Bartok sonata for 2 pianos & percussion)

well, its a plan..but what about all those other "Genres" ? #

British Folk is alive and kicking, for instance...and there are the friendly guys on the "World" board....time and money....

Let us know how you get on with the Bartok...I don't know it, so be interested to hear your thoughts. as for Gong...its all flying teapots and flared trousers, isn't it ?

[EdgeleyRob]

been playing loads of cds from my dad's collection

Has he got any William Alwyn cds Roberta ?

[roberta]

Has he got any William Alwyn cds Roberta ?

yes, loads - lyrita & naxos!!! i have seen about 15 so far - i hope you don't expect me to play any of them yet!?

[roberta]

well, its a plan..but what about all those other "Genres" ? #

British Folk is alive and kicking, for instance...and there are the friendly guys on the "World" board....time and money....

Let us know how you get on with the Bartok...I don't know it, so be interested to hear your thoughts. as for Gong...its all flying teapots and flared trousers, isn't it ?

i am familiar with bartok - been a fan since i was seven! i know more bartok than beethoven - re the folk, i think i will build up to that, next year maybe

[EdgeleyRob]

yes, loads - lyrita & naxos!!! i have seen about 15 so far - i hope you don't expect me to play any of them yet!?

Obviously a man with taste,don't wait too long before giving them a try.

[roberta]

Obviously a man with taste,don't wait too long before giving them a try.

i will play them when i get to grip with 'folk' as mentioned by teamsaint - next year

[Ferretfancy]

Just reverting for a moment, most of the music of Malcolm Arnold sets my teeth on edge,it's so often noisy in an uncomfortable way. with a sort of heavy rhetoric which bores me quickly. It's interesting to see as well that most of the fuss about George Lloyd has died down.Still, it's there for those who like it.

[Barbirollians]

Just reverting for a moment, most of the music of Malcolm Arnold sets my teeth on edge,it's so often noisy in an uncomfortable way. with a sort of heavy rhetoric which bores me quickly. It's interesting to see as well that most of the fuss about George Lloyd has died down.Still, it's there for those who like it.

I am afraid I have to agree about Malcolm Arnold - his Symphony No1 puts my teeth on edge . I don't know much about Lloyd - a symphony I once heard on radio 3 seemed harmless enough but I never felt the urge to hear any more.