Shostakovich 4: anyone else got a 'problem piece' by a beloved composer?

[ahinton]

Shostakovich 4 is good!!

Do some people not like it because its loud/ modern/ exploratory?

It is a young man's work. He was exploring and enjoying modern western music (Stravinsky/ Prokofiev etc.) and then he discovered Mahler. As Shostakovich allegedly said "My discovery in Mahler has pushed the other composers into the background"3VS

Good points except that it simply doesn't sound like a young man's work; despite being completed before he attained the age of 30, it confidently and assuredly wears the cares and experiences of a lifetime on its broad shoulders and has an emotional maturity, breadth and sheer power that comes across to this particular listener as just as astonishing as anything else about this symphony!

[teamsaint]

Good points except that it simply doesn't sound like a young man's work; despite being completed before he attained the age of 30, it confidently and assuredly wears the cares and experiences of a lifetime on its broad shoulders and has an emotional maturity, breadth and sheer power that comes across to this particular listener as just as astonishing as anything else about this symphony!

Good points.That is surely often the extraordinary thing about creative young talent...we are amazed at an understanding apparently way beyond their years...everybody from a Shakespeare to Bob Dylan. I am convinced we will learn much about this with better understanding of left/right brain relationships.
Oh, and Shosty like so many was surely made wise beyond his years by the incredible times he lived through.

[ahinton]

Good points.That is surely often the extraordinary thing about creative young talent...we are amazed at an understanding apparently way beyond their years...everybody from a Shakespeare to Bob Dylan. I am convinced we will learn much about this with better understanding of left/right brain relationships.
Oh, and Shosty like so many was surely made wise beyond his years by the incredible times he lived through.

Whilst this is no doubt true, I don't think that he personally experienced much of those negative aspects of those times that were to dog him for much of the remainder of his life until shortly before embarking on the Fourth Symphony; that said, he may well have known something about the earlier maltreatment of Roslavets and possible others among his compatriot musicians (I understand that, later in his life, when the then deceased Roslavets still "enjoyed" non-person status in his native land, Shostakovich - and no doubt others - were given orders never to mention his name in public or in classrooms, though quite how much notice Shostakovich took of this diktat remains uncertain)...

[roberta]

Whilst this is no doubt true, I don't think that he personally experienced much of those negative aspects of those times that were to dog him for much of the remainder of his life until shortly before embarking on the Fourth Symphony; that said, he may well have known something about the earlier maltreatment of Roslavets and possible others among his compatriot musicians (I understand that, later in his life, when the then deceased Roslavets still "enjoyed" non-person status in his native land, Shostakovich - and no doubt others - were given orders never to mention his name in public or in classrooms, though quite how much notice Shostakovich took of this diktat remains uncertain)...

dear ahinton, we surely started something with our innocent comment on the other thread the other day about the concert on radio 3 in the afternoon!!

[richardfinegold]

Typically great post from Jayne (no 22) and also from A Hinton (no 2).

I have a big interest in Russian history of the Stalin years and find that a reading of Robert Conquest's The Great Terror, Orlando Figes' The Whisperers and -yes - Testimony will pay dividends if you really want to get under the skin of this symphony. It is a great sprawling masterpiece and I love it.

My problem child? Bruckner 2. I've tried, goodness me I've tried, but it simply will not 'gel'.

I find DSCH First violin Concerto an even more terrifying depiction of someone who thinks he will be dragged off any night to the Gulag.
My problem child is Mahler's 8th. I love all the other symphonies and have never made it through a single playing or performance of the Symphony of a kazillion without nodding off.

[cloughie]

Well I got a lot of Flak , sorry advice , about this the other day, but Brahms 2 just doesn't do it for me.
However. I shall be addressing this issue in the long winter months. And he is one of my favourites.

ts as a sensitive, long-suffering Saints follower I would have thought that Brahms 2 was just the thing to soothe you after another 'some you win. some you draw' day!

[ahinton]

dear ahinton, we surely started something with our innocent comment on the other thread the other day about the concert on radio 3 in the afternoon!!

Um - did we? I've been awake (or now what passes for awake) for more than 27 hours now so I'm abit hazy right now about what it was that I wrote where; please forgive me (and point me in the appropriate direction, s'il vous plaît!) so that I can have another look!...

(Mon Dieu! Why do fora put up with people like me?!)...

[teamsaint]

ts as a sensitive, long-suffering Saints follower I would have thought that Brahms 2 was just the thing to soothe you after another 'some you win. some you draw' day!

OK, Will get the Jurowski, and keep for a drive home from a defeat. Not that I am anticipating one any time soon !

[amateur51]

(Mon Dieu! Why do fora put up with people like me?!)...

It's the tax advice in the style of Henry James wot does it, ah

[EdgeleyRob]

Had a listen to Shostakovich 4 earlier.
I only have one version, in this box.




I'd forgotten what a terrifying piece it is,sounds like someone frightened to death.
A piece to make you think 'maybe I've not had such a bad day after all'.

[teamsaint]

Good post, ER.(like the box too).
I have listened to it twice in two days...and have some thoughts.Anyway, its really helped me to clarify what I think about it, even if I am wrong !!!

(PS weekend....Hurrah !!)

[Petrushka]

FF

Which of the Rozhdestvensky recordings? There appear to be at least 3 in circulation (live with the Philharmonia from the 1962 Edinburgh festival; with the USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra; and with the Bolshoi Orchestra). Very happy to try all three but any steer you can give would be most welcome.

HD

I have all three of those (plus a DVD of a 1978 Prom with the BBCSO at which I was present) and for my money the best of the bunch is the version with the Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra on Russian Disc recorded in 1981.

[roberta]

Um - did we? I've been awake (or now what passes for awake) for more than 27 hours now so I'm abit hazy right now about what it was that I wrote where; please forgive me (and point me in the appropriate direction, s'il vous plaît!) so that I can have another look!...

(Mon Dieu! Why do fora put up with people like me?!)...

it was in the what are you listening to thread - my post #7548 and your post #7550. calibans opening post on this thread seems to refer to them indirectly - get some sleep!!

[cloughie]

OK, Will get the Jurowski, and keep for a drive home from a defeat. Not that I am anticipating one any time soon !

I hope it's a while before you need it - on the other hand just have a listen - at least to the seconfd movement.

[ahinton]

It's the tax advice in the style of Henry James wot does it, ah

Is it really? Whose? And, while we're about it, when and where did Henry James give - or even lend his style to - tax advice? And did he ever give any to Shostakovich? Just curious! I have so much to learn about so many things...