Shostakovich 4: anyone else got a 'problem piece' by a beloved composer?

[Zauberfloete]

I'd better not mention Sibelius,my problem child composer,ooops too late.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one!! I find Sibelius tedious in the extreme; the last bit of the 5th symphony is just plain irritating (just get on with it!!) and Finlandia makes me want to chuck the radio out of the window.

I have the same problem with Debussy and Delius - can't stand either of them.

I love Brahms's orchestral music, especially the glorious Fourth Symphony, but I cannot abide the clarinet sonatas and clarinet quintet.

[Nick Armstrong]

You really do seem almost to have the monopoly on the greatest good sense here! What sensitive commentaries! I accept the "crazy nightmare" aspects of 4's first movement, yet those "visually evocative episodes" do, for me at least, coalesce at the same time into something of a purposeful and convincingly direction-conscious and logical narrative, even if to some extent forging a logic out of apparent illogicality. As to the coda of the finale, I've never heard such profound tragedy expressed in bursts of C major anywhere in the repertoire; as I've suggested elsewhere, compare Praise to the Holiest towards the close of Gerontius and Die Sonne towards that of Gurrelieder - massive big heavy brass-laden triumphal affirmations each with a root position common chord of C major at the top, just as has the opening of the coda in Shostakovich 4's finale - yet Shostakovich somehow contrives to inform his with the most doom-laden inevitability and a sense of despairing hopelessness that can only collapse into a C minor heap as it burns itself out. He wasn't even 30 when he wrote this! Whatever kind of emotional capacity did he have?...

4 stands alone indeed...

Thank you very much for your unique and uniquely persuasive arguments here...

Seconded!! Jayne, thanks for your contributions in particular! I shall re-read before having a proper listen at the weekend!!

[arthroceph]

It's clear that the more famous the work, the keener the disappointment so I'd have to say DSCH 10. Haven't got it yet .. all this lark about the "perfect allegro" ...

[teamsaint]

Are you serious?

I'm getting the Barshai / WDRSO version out of my "2 quid from Superdrug bargain of all time" Brilliant Classics box-set this weekend... I'll tell you THAT for nothing!

not exactly serious..but it has got me going a bit. second listen in two days. Used to just let it sweep over me.Now......trying to make sense of it. Seems to have agitated the cats a bit too !!
I got that Barshai version..."bobby box set", me !!

Has anybody recommended anything specific"up thread"?

[amateur51]

While my training as a historian makes me wary of reading too much a posteriori meaning into music, JLW's, well, exegesis of what I think is one of the great masterpieces of 20th Century music gets it spot-on. Clear an hour, sit down, turn up the volume as loud as the neighbours can bear, put on of the many fine recordings (Kondrashin, Previn, Rattle, Caetani, Wigglesworth et al), bear in mind where and when it was written and just let it all unfold.

Great list HD but could I make a plea for a place for Herbig and his Saarbrucken orchestra on Berlin Classics too.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Berlin%2BClassics/0016112BC#listen

[Nick Armstrong]

I'd better not mention Sibelius,my problem child composer,ooops too late.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one!! I find Sibelius tedious in the extreme; the last bit of the 5th symphony is just plain irritating (just get on with it!!) and Finlandia makes me want to chuck the radio out of the window.

I have the same problem with Debussy and Delius - can't stand either of them.

Oi oi oi !!!



It'll be a very unwieldy thread if we widen it to 'composers I can't stand' ... that's not the point! (Though while we're talking, how CAN you say that about Sibelius...??! Though I might agree heartily about Delius )

The point of this thread is when there's a composer most of whose stuff you love, but then there's one piece which others rave about which you can't 'get'...

[amateur51]

Oi oi oi !!!



It'll be a very unwieldy thread if we widen it to 'composers I can't stand' ... that's not the point! (Though while we're talking, how CAN you say that about Sibelius...??! Though I might agree heartily about Delius )

The point of this thread is when there's a composer most of whose stuff you love, but then there's one piece which others rave about which you can't 'get'...

nicely reined-in, Caliban

[Nick Armstrong]

"bobby box set", me !!

nice one, bobby !

[HighlandDougie]

Great list HD but could I make a plea for a place for Herbig and his Saarbrucken orchestra on Berlin Classics too.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/B...16112BC#listen

Thanks, Ams. Don't know it but greatly like Gunther Herbig so will rectify that omission forthwith. And Caliban, you can do better than Barshai. If you don't mind downloads, Raiskin on Amazon is cheap as chips as an MP3 and an enthralling performance.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Its not just the libretto E R I don't think the music is up to RVW's usual standard either, nice ideas in places, but a lot of the 'filling' is very uninspired. Hugh the Drover has a weak libretto too but the music is memorably and at times very romantic and beautiful, in many ways RVW's homage to Puccini, a composer he greatly admired. Riders to the Sea is RVW's operatic masterpiece and I also adore Sir John in Love (I actually prefer it to Verdi's Falstaff).

[amateur51]

Thanks, Ams. Don't know it but greatly like Gunther Herbig so will rectify that omission forthwith. And Caliban, you can do better than Barshai. If you don't mind downloads, Raiskin on Amazon is cheap as chips as an MP3 and an enthralling performance.

Last year sometime Radio 3 broadcast a live performance of Shostakovich symphony no 4 given by the BBC Philharmonic and Herbig in the evening concert slot It was devastating in its impact.

You've mentioned the Raiskin performance before so I'll return the favour and seek it out, HD

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks, Ams. Don't know it but greatly like Gunther Herbig so will rectify that omission forthwith. And Caliban, you can do better than Barshai. If you don't mind downloads, Raiskin on Amazon is cheap as chips as an MP3 and an enthralling performance.

Up for amazon mp3s (I have some vouchers from buying headphones, so will be free !! ) - thanks for the recommendation!

Ditto Ammy for the Herbig, one of my heroes

I thought I had the Haitink on CD but it's not on the shelf...

[Petrushka]

Typically great post from Jayne (no 22) and also from A Hinton (no 2).

I have a big interest in Russian history of the Stalin years and find that a reading of Robert Conquest's The Great Terror, Orlando Figes' The Whisperers and -yes - Testimony will pay dividends if you really want to get under the skin of this symphony. It is a great sprawling masterpiece and I love it.

My problem child? Bruckner 2. I've tried, goodness me I've tried, but it simply will not 'gel'.

[teamsaint]

Up for amazon mp3s (I have some vouchers from buying headphones, so will be free !! ) - thanks for the recommendation!

Ditto Ammy for the Herbig, one of my heroes

I thought I had the Haitink on CD but it's not on the shelf...

You'll have lent it to somebody, in a moment of weakness...and we all know what that means !
Having a good nature does not extend to lending records, Cd's etc.

either that, or your memory is shot!.

[EdgeleyRob]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one!! I find Sibelius tedious in the extreme; the last bit of the 5th symphony is just plain irritating (just get on with it!!) and Finlandia makes me want to chuck the radio out of the window.

Way hay !!

I love Delius though

The point of this thread is when there's a composer most of whose stuff you love, but then there's one piece which others rave about which you can't 'get'

ok ok that Vaughan Williams harmonica romance thingy.