Are You A 'New World' Symphony Snob?

[Barbirollians]

Now if we are talking about No 8 Barbirolli was magnificent in this work

[kea]

I like the 9th, but for some reason I never imprinted on it the way I did the 5th (and the 6th and 7th to some extent). I like all the Dvořák symphonies though, even No. 1, and consider all of them to be on a pretty similar level in terms of preference—Nos. 5, 6 and 7 only ahead of the lot because they'll always be "with" me in a way the others won't. I know that doesn't make much sense but whatever.

[Pabmusic]

I suppose if I had to state an order of preference for the Dvorak symphonies, it would be:

8, 9, 6, 3, 7, 5, 1, 4, 2.

The lowly position of number 7 is the result of studying it at university in 1971 with a lecturer who couldn't make the Science Museum interesting.

My order would be:

9, 8, 4, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2, 1

That's not intended to reflect artistic merit, just 'animal instinct'.

[Tony Halstead]

Admire but don't much care for that either; sorry!


Well, the seventh, certainly; his finest symphony, IMHO...


Well, someone had already to have written one with double bass, did they not?!...


Yes - with you there - and what about those symphonic poems? The Violin Sonatina has terrifying memories for me, have once been press-ganged into playing its piano part for someone when I was at school; I wouldn't have minded so much if I could have played the piano...

Er... if you 'couldn't' play the piano part of the Dvorak Sonatina when you were at school, how come you managed to improve your piano playing to the extent that you could indeed play ( beautifully) the Dvorak 'Dumky' Trio on a lovely LP I have, featuring the Bath Pump Room Trio?

[Tony Halstead]

'Wrong' ahinton maybe?

[ahinton]

'Wrong' ahinton maybe?

I think that Tony had better check his LP; believe me, I've never even played the Dumky Trio, let alone recorded it!

[jean]

Pump Room Trio 1981

Photo features Sidney Jones (Violin), Shena Power (Cello) and Alister Hinton (Piano).

[ahinton]

Pump Room Trio 1981

Photo features Sidney Jones (Violin), Shena Power (Cello) and Alister Hinton (Piano).

My name is Alistair, actually - and the fact remains that I've never played that Dumky Trio!

I do agree that some of the chamber music finds the composer at his best.

[ahinton]

Er... if you 'couldn't' play the piano part of the Dvorak Sonatina when you were at school, how come you managed to improve your piano playing to the extent that you could indeed play ( beautifully) the Dvorak 'Dumky' Trio on a lovely LP I have, featuring the Bath Pump Room Trio?

I do very much appreciate your kind compliment, but I should say that anything that I was ever able to do at the piano came about by dint of hard work (as does anyone else's) without much natural ability to do it (as my excellent but long-suffering piano teacher at RCM would doubtless testify)!

But anyway - OK – confession time (sort of) – and digression time (if I may be forgiven this).

Since jean (didn't) ask, yes, I ran Bath’s Pump Room Trio for a time during the 1980s, albeit not very successfully (far too many obstacles of one kind and another and quite incredibly time-consuming), although I did manage to help to keep it afloat at a time when he who at least partially paid the piper announced cessation of calling the tune without even telling the Trio; there was a hue and cry that led to coverage in the national dailies and said paymaster was obliged to fall on his own Damoclean sword. I remember saying to someone in the aftermath that I'd never expected to appear on page 3 of the Sun...

...day Telegraph.

The violinist pictured in the link that you posted retired at around the time it was taken and there have been a couple of changes of violinist and one change of cellist and pianist since, although all the present incumbents have played in the ensemble for at least 20 years.

The Tyranny of Pop thread includes many allusions to piped music in public places and, inevitably, the subject of background music has arisen. Piped background music emerges from speakers whereas, of course, the Pump Room Trio performs live in Bath's Pump Room and elsewhere. Whilst its principal purpose is to entertain, I have never forgotten a remark made by someone who complimented the ensemble on its contribution to the life of the Pump Room – "how pleasant it is to come to the Pump Room and listen to its Trio, accompanied by morning coffee or afternoon tea" – which demonstrated that he had his priorities right.

Whilst the Three Choirs Festival, which began life 300 years ago this year, is reckoned to be the oldest surviving music festival in the world, music at the Pump Room dates back at least a further decade to the opening of the original building in 1704 (it was substantially rebuilt in 1795 during Haydn's heyday – he visited Bath at least once but I’m not sure if he ever went to the Pump Room). Musical performance has continued to be a hallmark of its existence ever since, with the exception of a short time during WWII when it had to close. Since just after the end of WWII, at around the time that Bath Festival began, music there has been provided daily by a piano trio as it still is today, the ensemble playing at least once daily for around 363 days of the year; it is the only place in Britain where this happens and I'm not sure if it does anywhere in the world.

Of the many tales told by the violinist pictured in the link, several stick in the memory. One was when, during the 1930s, he was leading an ensemble on a cruise liner on the east coast of South America and they all spent an evening in a watering hole where music was being played by a piano trio – mainly tangos and such. The viola player (it had to be, didn't it?!) in Sidney's ensemble dared him to go up to the trio's violinist and ask if they could play Schubert's Trio in B flat – so he did. Following much consternation and scrabbling around amongst piles of music, they began to play it. Nearly three quarters of an hour later, they finished. Sidney then walked up to the violinist again and thanked him, adding "I only asked you if you could play it"…

One other, from just before his retirement, I witnessed myself when, at a Bath University rag week event for which the Pump Room Trio played for dinner, a young student came up to Sidney and said "could you play the Blue Danube?", to which, without a moment's hesitation, Sidney replied "I'm awfully sorry – I'm afraid we can".

Anyway – that’s more than enough of this! Back to Dvořák! - the only work of whom I ever recall having a place in the regular repertoire of the Pump Room Trio was the once-ubiquitous Humoresque...

[BBMmk2]

My favourite is the cycle by Rafael Kubelik on DG!

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm a great fan of the 'New World' - one of those very rare pieces which mysteriously retain their appeal despite complete familiarity and popular over-exposure. As mentioned early in this thread, it's Kondrashin/VPO for me as the most electrifying recording!

My favourite is the cycle by Rafael Kubelik on DG!

I've never got on with those recordings; I just don't like the sound. One of the great revelations of recent years for me has been the Rowicki / LSO cycle, thanks to Tony. Just can't get enough of it, especially in the lesser-known symphonies. Stunning, involving, immediate sound - better than many a much later recording - and great playing (inc some pretty special horn playing in No. 2, natch...! )

No.2 ('real' no.2) in B flat is a sprawling and perhaps flawed work but it is full of beautiful tunes and gorgeous orchestration, its slow movement maybe Dvorak's finest before that of Symphony no.6.

I will never forget my first discovery of the piece,(having never even heard it) being privileged to play on a Philips recording of it in the early 1970s with the LSO, under the sensitive and benevolent baton of the somewhat neglected Polish conductor, Witold Rowicki.

Yes, 2 & 6 are lovely - but the standout discovery for me was No 4 - what a piece !!! I must have listened to it 30 times since acquiring the Rowicki cycle. I love it to bits.

I would put No 4 alongside the 'New World' as my favourites, with the others some way behind.

[Barbirollians]

I have to admit that I have never heard his first four symphonies . Something that clearly needs immediate rectification.

[Pabmusic]

I'm a great fan of the 'New World' - one of those very rare pieces which mysteriously retain their appeal despite complete familiarity and popular over-exposure. As mentioned early in this thread, it's Kondrashin/VPO for me as the most electrifying recording!...but the standout discovery for me was No 4 - what a piece !!! I must have listened to it 30 times since acquiring the Rowicki cycle. I love it to bits.

I would put No 4 alongside the 'New World' as my favourites, with the others some way behind.

Absolutely with you in all of this, Cali. The New World turns up fresh as a daisy every time - how did he achieve this? Kondrashin is superb. And as for No. 4 - just wonderful!! You can even forgive the repetitious 'rum-ti-tum' rhythm in the last movement.

[Petrushka]

I've never knowingly heard the Dvorak 4. Like BBM the only complete cycle I have is the Kubelik which came with the DG boxed set I had a couple of years ago. Apparently, Kubelik was reluctant to record the complete cycle (at least the early symphonies) and the only one I've heard so far outside of 7 - 9 has been the 1st which made me think that Kubelik was right.

I'll have to find time to listen to the 4th.

[Pabmusic]

I've never knowingly heard the Dvorak 4. Like BBM the only complete cycle I have is the Kubelik which came with the DG boxed set I had a couple of years ago. Apparently, Kubelik was reluctant to record the complete cycle (at least the early symphonies) and the only one I've heard so far outside of 7 - 9 has been the 1st which made me think that Kubelik was right.

I'll have to find time to listen to the 4th.

Be careful, Pet (now there's a good nickname!). This is not an earth-shattering work that will change the way you view existence - well, maybe not. It's a bright, tuneful, life-enhancing piece of fun that makes you want to buy Dvorak a drink. Rimsky-Korsakov's Piano Quintet is another such piece.