Are You A 'New World' Symphony Snob?

[cloughie]

There was a story on the recent "Symphony" series on TV about a pupil of Bruckner who was enthusing about Dvorak's orchestration, but Bruckner was not impressed. He said "If you took two sausages and painted them blue and green you would still only have two sausages!".

And I think he was right. Dvorak's music is pretty, but lacking in emotional impact and doing little to take music forward. So, while I used to enjoy his 9th, and other of his music, I have become bored with it and no longer feel any need to hear any of it again.

Against a Bruckner Symphony almost any other music seems trivial by comparison.

What a strange notion to pitch Bruckner against Dvorak - they're both great in very different ways. Your final statement is not only strange but also I suspect difficult to justify.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh dear, I wish I'd saved my fiver, and I really wouldn't pay to hear it live. Other posters here seem to rate the 3rd so I might just feel brave enough to try it. Should I keep my hands in my pockets if I happen upon No 2??

Now, I really don't like the first two, LMP, but 3 is a much better work.

HeyNon (#59) Ives was very rude about a number of composers (" Serge Notmanenuff" etc) but I don't recall him singling out Dvorak. Would've been a bit of a cheek if he had, though, seeing that the slow movement of the Ives 1st (which I adore) is so dependent on the Hovis movement!

[Tony Halstead]

I've known No's 4-9 for donkey's years and felt I really ought to check out 1-3. Was therefore highly chuffed to find a s/h copy of Kubelik's 1st recently.

Oh dear, I wish I'd saved my fiver, and I really wouldn't pay to hear it live. Other posters here seem to rate the 3rd so I might just feel brave enough to try it. Should I keep my hands in my pockets if I happen upon No 2??

No, I stand by what I said ( wrote) about no.2. It's lovely!

[Pikaia]

It's your loss. "Lacking in emotional impact" - what an extraordinary statement. To give a specific example, Dvorak's "Rusalka" had an enormous emotional impact on me when I saw it recently.

The "Song to the Moon" from Rusalka is perhaps one exception where Dvorak's music conveys emotion rather than being just a nice tune, but his 9th Symphony does not do it for me. Compare it with Vaughan Williams' Tallis Fantasia, or the Romanza from his 5th Symphony, for example, and you will see that Dvorak does not strive to go beyond a beautiful sound in the way that VW did. So Dvorak is a good composer, but not Premier league, IMO.

[cloughie]

The "Song to the Moon" from Rusalka is perhaps one exception where Dvorak's music conveys emotion rather than being just a nice tune, but his 9th Symphony does not do it for me. Compare it with Vaughan Williams' Tallis Fantasia, or the Romanza from his 5th Symphony, for example, and you will see that Dvorak does not strive to go beyond a beautiful sound in the way that VW did. So Dvorak is a good composer, but not Premier league, IMO.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixed-Emotions-Sleeve-Rolling-Stones/dp/B000LX0W54/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1353277938&sr=1-1

[cloughie]

I've known No's 4-9 for donkey's years and felt I really ought to check out 1-3. Was therefore highly chuffed to find a s/h copy of Kubelik's 1st recently.

Oh dear, I wish I'd saved my fiver, and I really wouldn't pay to hear it live. Other posters here seem to rate the 3rd so I might just feel brave enough to try it. Should I keep my hands in my pockets if I happen upon No 2??

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvor%C3%A1k-Symphony-No-2-Anton%C3%ADn/dp/B0000274WI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1353278073&sr=1-1

LMP flash some of cash and give it a whirl - even if you don't like the smphony which mirrors the curate's egg you have half of the Legends as a bonus!

[David-G]

The "Song to the Moon" from Rusalka is perhaps one exception where Dvorak's music conveys emotion rather than being just a nice tune, but his 9th Symphony does not do it for me. Compare it with Vaughan Williams' Tallis Fantasia, or the Romanza from his 5th Symphony, for example, and you will see that Dvorak does not strive to go beyond a beautiful sound in the way that VW did. So Dvorak is a good composer, but not Premier league, IMO.

Appreciation of music is a very personal thing. Vaughan Williams may be a very great composer, but I just do not get on with his music at all. I would much rather listen to Dvorak.

[Richard Tarleton]

Dvorak's music is pretty, but lacking in emotional impact and doing little to take music forward. So, while I used to enjoy his 9th, and other of his music.

Welcome, Pikaia! Hope you're dusting yourself off there . I hope you're not including the cello concerto under the heading of "lacking in emotional impact" One of the great concerti on any instrument, IMV, and another Dvorak work which has had its own thread more than once.

[rauschwerk]

Appreciation of music is a very personal thing.

Indeed. If Dvorak's music did not engage me emotionally, I would have given up listening to it long ago.

[Lateralthinking1]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that it was one of Margaret Thatcher's eight Desert Island Discs.

GUS Band. Conductor : Boddington.

(Almost an 8 out of 10 from me - 7.9)

[visualnickmos]

"I don't think anyone has mentioned that it was one of Margaret Thatcher's eight Desert Island Discs."

Does anybody care?

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that it was one of Margaret Thatcher's eight Desert Island Discs.

GUS Band. Conductor : Boddington.

(Almost an 8 out of 10 from me - 7.9)

I'm not surprised to hear that about Thatcher: her musical taste being conditioned by an ostensibly American tune by A Czech composer fitting Hovis's cosy domestic golden-lit scene of 19th century peasants mounting a street in Shaftesbury to a voice off in a Yorkshire accent seems a nice combo to my mind, if totally libellous.

I didn't often agree with my father's musical tastes, but for me he summed up the New World well as a piece consisting of not much more than a succession of nice tunes, to be listened to once a year, but certainly not more.

[visualnickmos]

.....the New World well as a piece consisting of not much more than a succession of nice tunes.....

I don't have a problem with composers writing a succession of nice tunes - that's kinda what they do.

[Dave2002]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvor%C3%A1k-...3278073&sr=1-1

LMP flash some of cash and give it a whirl - even if you don't like the smphony which mirrors the curate's egg you have half of the Legends as a bonus!

I'd say no to this - I had/have some of those Naxos CDs conducted by Gunzenhauser, and IMO the performances and recordings weren't too great. I know that a few reviewers gave them multiple stars, but I never got on with them. Some things on Naxos are very good, but not these Dvorak performances. Try Pesek if you want a cheap set [if it's still available - it is, but no longer so cheap], though there are others. I believe Rowicki is good - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dvorak-Symph...3329425&sr=1-6 though the general recommendation is for Kertesz.

I have tried listening to Number 1 - (not in the Naxos performances) - it's pretty long winded and heavy going, and I had it on for several days in my car, so I did try more than once.

Maybe I should pick up on the recommendation to listen to number 2. There were some recordings of the early symphonies on Chandos - were they with the SNO? I think I had them a long while ago - not sure if they've been lost now due to moves.

Incidentally, I'd just noticed that the version of number 7 by Monteux is available again - very good - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No-...329561&sr=1-38

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't have a problem with composers writing a succession of nice tunes - that's kinda what they do.

If that was all that was needed, Johann Strauuss would have composed symphonies.....