Are You A 'New World' Symphony Snob?

[kernelbogey]

There was a story on the recent "Symphony" series on TV about a pupil of Bruckner who was enthusing about Dvorak's orchestration, but Bruckner was not impressed. He said "If you took two sausages and painted them blue and green you would still only have two sausages!".

And I think he was right. Dvorak's music is pretty, but lacking in emotional impact and doing little to take music forward. So, while I used to enjoy his 9th, and other of his music, I have become bored with it and no longer feel any need to hear any of it again.

Against a Bruckner Symphony almost any other music seems trivial by comparison.

Welcome, Pikala. People can get a bit carried away here sometimes. Some of us don't get out much.

I can sort of see what you mean about D's music being pretty, but I disagree with that as a verdict. The chamber music is beautiful and complex, IMV, eg The Dumky and the quartets.

That's a very Bruckner quote. I can imagine him saying it, and that anyway 'Seine Musik ist mir ganz Wurst' .

I hope you enjoy being a member of these boards.

[salymap]

I love it but either 7 or 8 are my favourites.

A musician gave me the following rubbish to fit a bit of the New World.

Hallelujah, here's the BBC
Put your best foot forward
Kiwi's the polish for me.

I won't go on but there were a lot of current advertising slogans involved.

[Tevot]

Hello there,

Re # 11 Stunsworth

Well the dreaded Hovis advert was aired in 1973 - directed by one Ridley Scott - he of "Alien" and "Blade Runner" fame - a shame that this year's "Prometheus" proved to be a bit stale...

Re # 30 Eine Alpensinfonie

I fully agree and more. Dvorak 9 is popular because it's bloody beautiful imho - despite the Eee bye gum brass band renditions ever since ;-) And frankly to this untrained ear it stays in one's memory more than 7 (after a superb first five minutes or so!) and 8. My loss perhaps...

Mind you there is a downside to The New World's success. This - from the Independent Newspaper in 2006:

'Dvorak's "New World" Symphony, inspired by the discovery of the Americas, has become so closely associated with the brand that Classic FM regularly receives requests for the "Hovis music".

What might happen if along with the bread - a broadcaster could provide a fish too :-) !!?

A battering?

For any interested here is a link to the original Indie article :-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/ridley-scotts-hovis-advert-is-voted-alltime-favourite-476424.html

Best Dishes,

Hovis

[AjAjAjH]

Welcome Pikala.

One of the good things about this website is that we can agree to disagree - as we regularly do.

Dvorak's Symphony No.9 is my 3rd favourite symphony after Bruckner's 8th (1st) and Elgar's 2nd.

Mark Elder conducts it without playing the last chord of the first movement because, apparently, that last chord is not in the autograph score.

I question it having no emotional impact. Some 10years ago we had a brass band in church for our Christmas Carol Service. The brass band played the 'Largo' from 'The New World Symphony' and my then 86 year old father-in-law sobbed his heart out. Why? because it brought back memories of his wife who had died not recently but many years before.
He's now 97 and next month Mrs AjAjAjH will go and hear this wonderful work played by the Halle Orchestra and think of him and of the enjoyment he still gets from classical music and of the time 'The New World Symphony' moved him to tears.

I love Dvorak's music and over the last few seasons in Manchester we have been able to hear symphonies 4-6 as well as the often played 7-9. The Violin and Cello Concerti have had regular airings as have some of the Tone Poems. How I wish that we could hear live symphonies 1-3, the piano Concerto and some of the lesser know overtures. 'Carnival' Overture is fantastic but so are 'Hamlet' and 'My Homeland' to name but two.

My favourite recording of 'The New World' symphony - Colin Davis and the LSO on the 'LSO Live' label.

[Tony Halstead]

No.2 ('real' no.2) in B flat is a sprawling and perhaps flawed work but it is full of beautiful tunes and gorgeous orchestration, its slow movement maybe Dvorak's finest before that of Symphony no.6.
I will never forget my first discovery of the piece,(having never even heard it) being privileged to play on a Philips recording of it in the early 1970s with the LSO, under the sensitive and benevolent baton of the somewhat neglected Polish conductor, Witold Rowicki.

[kernelbogey]

[...] being privileged to play on a Philips recording of it in the early 1970s with the LSO, under the sensitive and benevolent baton of the somewhat neglected Polish conductor, Witold Rowicki.

Waldhorn - Rowicki conducted an interesting LvB 7, very favourably reviewed by Trevor Harvey in the Gramophone, and which I then bought - possibly my earliest LP purchase. Rowicki holds back the second theme in the slow movement until he brings it in in a bit of a coup de theatre. Did you play on that recording, perchance?

[salymap]

No.2 ('real' no.2) in B flat is a sprawling and perhaps flawed work but it is full of beautiful tunes and gorgeous orchestration, its slow movement maybe Dvorak's finest before that of Symphony no.6.
I will never forget my first discovery of the piece,(having never even heard it) being privileged to play on a Philips recording of it in the early 1970s with the LSO, under the sensitive and benevolent baton of the somewhat neglected Polish conductor, Witold Rowicki.

My first recording of the now number 8 was known as number 4 and wasn't the D minor now number 7,then number 2 ?? Anyway my only big box is of 40 CDs of Dvorak and I have the one you mention as number 2 Waldhorn. I must leave it out and play it soon. Box sets are all very well but I haven'tlistened to half of them yet.

[visualnickmos]

Second that. It's one of those 'evergreen war-horses' () we had a thread about

I have perhaps more recordings of this than I should! But I enjoy them all, (they all offer something quite different, like no two resaurants will serve exactly the same Bœuf Wellington, though all will be delicious) and it is one of my most listened-to works. Wouldn't have a word said against it.

[EdgeleyRob]

It is so popular because it is wonderful,no 8 is my favourite though.

[teamsaint]

It is so popular because it is wonderful,no 8 is my favourite though.

footy forums do Polls at times like this ER,as you know. !! I think we should too !!

[kernelbogey]

Could any of the 'snobbery' about this work be precisely because it is 'From the new world', i.e. America? Europeans mourning Dvorak's emigration, physical and musical. Just a thought.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Could any of the 'snobbery' about this work be precisely because it is 'From the new world', i.e. America? Europeans mourning Dvorak's emigration, physical and musical. Just a thought.

But is there any "snobbery", kernel? None admitted to or mentioned so far - people generally seem to like it. I'm largely indifferent to the work: I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I do nos 3 - 8, but I don't avoid it and a decent performance brings it alive. Does anyone know of anyone who sneers at it because they think that's what they "ought" to do (as opposed to merely disliking it)?

(And, just to put another nail in the coffin of your suggestion, nobody seems to be bothered in this nationalistic way by the 'cello Concerto or the "American" String Quartet.)

[David-G]

I enjoy the 9th as well as Dvorak's other symphonies. If it is indeed "over-exposed", that is not its or Dvorak's fault. I would not like it to disappear from concert programmes.

And I think he was right. Dvorak's music is pretty, but lacking in emotional impact and doing little to take music forward. So, while I used to enjoy his 9th, and other of his music, I have become bored with it and no longer feel any need to hear any of it again.

It's your loss. "Lacking in emotional impact" - what an extraordinary statement. To give a specific example, Dvorak's "Rusalka" had an enormous emotional impact on me when I saw it recently. In my view music should be judged on its own merits. There is no obligation on a composer to "take music forward". (And I am not saying that Dvorak did not do that.)

[John Shelton]

Could any of the 'snobbery' about this work be precisely because it is 'From the new world', i.e. America? Europeans mourning Dvorak's emigration, physical and musical. Just a thought.

But is there any "snobbery", kernel? None admitted to or mentioned so far - people generally seem to like it. I'm largely indifferent to the work: I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I do nos 3 - 8, but I don't avoid it and a decent performance brings it alive. Does anyone know of anyone who sneers at it because they think that's what they "ought" to do (as opposed to merely disliking it)?

(And, just to put another nail in the coffin of your suggestion, nobody seems to be bothered in this nationalistic way by the 'cello Concerto or the "American" String Quartet.)

The other way around, as it were, I seem to recall Ives wasn't a fan!

[LeMartinPecheur]

How I wish that we could hear live symphonies 1-3...

I've known No's 4-9 for donkey's years and felt I really ought to check out 1-3. Was therefore highly chuffed to find a s/h copy of Kubelik's 1st recently.

Oh dear, I wish I'd saved my fiver, and I really wouldn't pay to hear it live. Other posters here seem to rate the 3rd so I might just feel brave enough to try it. Should I keep my hands in my pockets if I happen upon No 2??