Are You A 'New World' Symphony Snob?

[ahinton]

Janáček was rather hostile to Smetana's music (especially The Bartered Bride!) but sympathetic to Dvořák's. I can hear that in the late tone poems, I think (which I believe Mahler conducted). My feeling with Dvořák is there's a psychological almost need to do the correct thing in terms of symphonic form which, for me, makes the music rather dull. Sorry.

Works I do like are the 'Dumky' and F minor piano trios, the first two movements of the 3rd symphony which is full of strange ideas I wish he'd given free range to, to a degree thev 7th symphony and the last string quartets. I've not heard the 'cello concerto in a while ....

At a tangent, Smetana's piano music is well worth investigating.

It is indeed, as is the piano trio, the two quartets and other works. Janáček's hostility to Smetana's music and sympathy towards Dvořák's might have some other extramusical connotation, but I've never quite understood that Dvořák's reputation has generally been thought to exceed that of Smetana; I agree that the 7th symphony is his finest and, whilst the 9th has its moments it doesn't do a whole lot for me and the orchestral tone poems are finer fare altogether, I think.

[ahinton]

I don't think 'Breakfast ' had even been thought of 54 years ago. Nor Sarah Mohr-Pietsch .

The "h" is present but silent in "Walker" but absent and silent in "Mohr-Pietsch". Don't let that make you choke on your cornflakes, though...

[cloughie]

The "h" is present but silent in "Walker" but absent and silent in "Mohr-Pietsch". Don't let that make you choke on your cornflakes, though...

I take it that's a hint on spelling!

[John Shelton]

The Bagatelles for string trio and harmonium are gorgeous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wG_UCO5XqQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ecHA6qBIQ

(Sorry for the repetition)

How about Talich in 'From the New World'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKVehfC1F_k

[aeolium]

Or this oft-played Humoresque:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmAZoexenx8

(And in Comedian Harmonists arrangement):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-YAbdMzVWQ

I can't say I ever find Dvorak's music dull; for me the folk inspiration and his phenomenal melodic gift transfigure the often traditional musical forms he uses, so that the music always gives the impression of breaking free of its formal constraints. The problem with the New World symphony is, as others have said, that it is overplayed and its qualities become staled by familiarity - I try and overcome that by only listening to a couple of performances a year at most.

[amateur51]

The Bagatelles for string trio and harmonium are gorgeous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wG_UCO5XqQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ecHA6qBIQ

(Sorry for the repetition)

How about Talich in 'From the New World'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKVehfC1F_k

Many thanks for the harmonium/trio Bagatelles, Hey Nonymous - wonderful stuff

[Bryn]

Or this oft-played Humoresque:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmAZoexenx8

(And in Comedian Harmonists arrangement):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-YAbdMzVWQ

And of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJmTTlj-pwI

So apposite, what with Dvorak being a railways anorak.

[teamsaint]

#9 is a fabulous piece by one of my favourite composers.
I just listen to #9 at a time of my own choosing (ie not on the radio or in BC's).
Th Czech Suite is one of the most uplifting pieces I know...and the chamber music is just amongst the finest there is.

He's the kiddy, as far as I am concerned. His use of folk music is just wonderful.

[Pikaia]

There was a story on the recent "Symphony" series on TV about a pupil of Bruckner who was enthusing about Dvorak's orchestration, but Bruckner was not impressed. He said "If you took two sausages and painted them blue and green you would still only have two sausages!".

And I think he was right. Dvorak's music is pretty, but lacking in emotional impact and doing little to take music forward. So, while I used to enjoy his 9th, and other of his music, I have become bored with it and no longer feel any need to hear any of it again.

Against a Bruckner Symphony almost any other music seems trivial by comparison.

[vinteuil]

Against a Bruckner Symphony almost any other music seems trivial by comparison.

... and in your collection of "trivial" music you will be putting, I don't know, - Perotin, Leonin, Palestrina, Byrd, Monteverdi, Victoria, Schutz, Handel, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner...

[richardfinegold]

I quite like this symphony and can understand why it's so popular.

However, it is seriously over-exposed and has been for many years now. Some of it is down to THAT Hovis advert, I'm sure, but a lot of it seems to be down to safe, unadventurous programming by planners who want a 'banker'.

I've never heard it performed live as I wouldn't feel satisfied with a concert where it was the main item.



What are everyone's thoughts on this work?

I've heard it many times in Concert. It is always satisfying. Don't deny yourself this pleasure.
My favorite experience was hearing a "Beyond The Score" presentation at the Chicago SO featuring this work. I had never realized how much the work was in spired by the poem Hiawatha. I believe that one can access this presentation from the cso web site.

[kernelbogey]

The "h" is present but silent in "Walker" but absent and silent in "Mohr-Pietsch". Don't let that make you choke on your cornflakes, though...

Ach! 'Twas the porridge, anyway.
PS Do you set cryptic crosswords, by any chance, ah?

[kernelbogey]

... and in your collection of "trivial" music you will be putting, I don't know, - Perotin, Leonin, Palestrina, Byrd, Monteverdi, Victoria, Schutz, Handel, Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner...

Ouch! What a welcoming post...!

[teamsaint]

There was a story on the recent "Symphony" series on TV about a pupil of Bruckner who was enthusing about Dvorak's orchestration, but Bruckner was not impressed. He said "If you took two sausages and painted them blue and green you would still only have two sausages!".

And I think he was right. Dvorak's music is pretty, but lacking in emotional impact and doing little to take music forward. So, while I used to enjoy his 9th, and other of his music, I have become bored with it and no longer feel any need to hear any of it again.

Against a Bruckner Symphony almost any other music seems trivial by comparison.

Was not Dvorak's use of folk music, for instance "taking music forward?" It was as far as I am concerned.
As for lack of emotional impact...I am amazed at this observation. It certainly affects me.Each to their own, though....

Edit...welcome anyway !!

[vinteuil]

Ouch! What a welcoming post...!

[ ... sorreeeee! ]