Are You A 'New World' Symphony Snob?

[kernelbogey]

Fucik was Czech

Oh there you are!

I need to check but I'm pretty sure that Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro-Hungrian empire in his life time.

Edit: yes of course it was. I've now set myself a little research task about what I've written above.

Pabs: any ideas about what the musical connection is between Fucik's music and those Dvorak pieces that 'fit in the same category'?

[Pabmusic]

Oh there you are!

I need to check but I'm pretty sure that Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro-Hungrian empire in his life time.

Yes it was. Have you heard those stories about Smetana refusing to teach in German, and calling himself Bedrich rather than Friedrich? It was generally called Bohemia then. The Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed in 1918 when the last Kaiser (can't recall his name) abdicated. There followed the creation of Czechoslovakia and a series of wars in the 1920s in which the USSR tried to gain part of the new country. Some of Suk's music is about just this, but I can't recall what.

[kernelbogey]

Yes it was. Have you heard those stories about Smetana refusing to teach in German, and calling himself Bedrich rather than Friedrich? It was generally called Bohemia then.

No I hadn't. Well,I've got some reading ahead of me this afternoon! See also my edit to Post 16.

[verismissimo]

I first heard this symphony at a concert at school 54 years ago. One of my first. Was it the CBSO?

I went home in the holiday filled with enthusiasm for it. A new young locum came for lunch and I bubbled with inarticulate stuff about how terrific it was.

"Oh, I'm rather bored with it," he said.

But what could he possibly mean?

[Pabmusic]

...Pabs: any ideas about what the musical connection is between Fucik's music and those Dvorak pieces that 'fit in the same category'?

I'm not much of an expert on Czech music, but there are some common conventions. Phrases that begin on a strong beat; melodies in (actual or implied) thirds; the juxtaposition of tonic major and minor keys; frequent use of syncopation using hemiolas (think of 'America' from West Side Story - hardly Czech, but it divides a 6/8 rhythm into 3+3 an 2+2+2). Think of the eighth Slavonic Dance - a good example of all of these.

Truth is, these things are easier to recognise by ear than to describe.

[kernelbogey]

[...]
"Oh, I'm rather bored with it," he said.

But what could he possibly mean?

I don't think 'Breakfast ' had even been thought of 54 years ago. Nor Sarah Mohr-Pietsch .

[John Shelton]

Janáček was rather hostile to Smetana's music (especially The Bartered Bride!) but sympathetic to Dvořák's. I can hear that in the late tone poems, I think (which I believe Mahler conducted). My feeling with Dvořák is there's a psychological almost need to do the correct thing in terms of symphonic form which, for me, makes the music rather dull. Sorry.

Works I do like are the 'Dumky' and F minor piano trios, the first two movements of the 3rd symphony which is full of strange ideas I wish he'd given free range to, to a degree the 7th symphony and the last string quartets. I've not heard the 'cello concerto in a while ....

At a tangent, Smetana's piano music is well worth investigating.

[edit: the Bagatelles for string trio and harmonium are gorgeous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wG_UCO5XqQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ecHA6qBIQ]

[cloughie]

See my edited #7

Proving the point in your second para, I was mistaken - I don't know the Kertesz/VPO/Decca performance at all!! I was referring in my head to the Kondrashin performance! Thanks to Mr Stunsworth for the reminder!

It was a cracker! It's first appearance was on LP with, unusually for its time a gatefold sleeve and later appeared as one of a group of the first classical issues on the World of... series - others being Ricci's Bruch and Mendelssohn Violin Concertos and another coming back into Decca ownership when RCA cut loose Mackerras conducting Grieg and Sibelius. The Kondrashin was an early digitally recorded LP from Decca.

[Nick Armstrong]

The Kondrashin was an early digitally recorded LP from Decca.

This was its first CD manifestation I think - early Decca Digital: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/re...kengl_music-21

I have this incarnation, available it seems in the US but not here.... However this download I would suggest is well worth the modest investment, for jaded palates... http://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Symphon.../dp/B0000041YK

[cloughie]

This was its first CD manifestation I think - early Decca Digital: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/re...kengl_music-21

I have this incarnation, available it seems in the US but not here.... However this download I would suggest is well worth the modest investment, for jaded palates... http://www.amazon.com/Dvorak-Symphon.../dp/B0000041YK

Choose your incarnation:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dclassical&field-keywords=dvorak+9+kondrashin&rh=n%3A697386%2Ck%3Advorak+9+kondrashin&ajr=0

[Pabmusic]

It was a cracker! It's first appearance was on LP with, unusually for its time a gatefold sleeve and later appeared as one of a group of the first classical issues on the World of... series - others being Ricci's Bruch and Mendelssohn Violin Concertos and another coming back into Decca ownership when RCA cut loose Mackerras conducting Grieg and Sibelius. The Kondrashin was an early digitally recorded LP from Decca.

The Kertesz/VPO is a lovely performance, except for a horrible "brakes on" slowing up at one point (last movt? - I can't recall), and for the unforgivable omission of the expo repeat in the first movement. There really is no excuse for this, since the first movement is rather short without it. Interestingly. Kertesz corrected both things for his LSO remake.

My favourite of all is Kondrashin.

[Nick Armstrong]

Choose your incarnation:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...ndrashin&ajr=0

Amazon refused to show me that when I tried!!

Thanks.

[Bryn]

Amazon refused to show me that when I tried!!

Thanks.

What were your search criteria? "dvorak 9 kondrashin" worked fine for me.

[Nick Armstrong]

What were your search criteria? "dvorak 9 kondrashin" worked fine for me.

Kondrashin Dvorak Vienna. It only gives the one version (used) version. Had I not been in a hurry I'd have changed the criteria because I found it difficult to credit.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In my opinion, it's one of the few really perfect symphonies. It's popular because it's good. I've never heard it over-exposed on "Breakfast" as I almost never listen to this programme.