Are You A 'New World' Symphony Snob?

[Mandryka]

I quite like this symphony and can understand why it's so popular.

However, it is seriously over-exposed and has been for many years now. Some of it is down to THAT Hovis advert, I'm sure, but a lot of it seems to be down to safe, unadventurous programming by planners who want a 'banker'.

I've never heard it performed live as I wouldn't feel satisfied with a concert where it was the main item.

What are everyone's thoughts on this work?

[cloughie]

I quite like this symphony and can understand why it's so popular.

However, it is seriously over-exposed and has been for many years now. Some of it is down to THAT Hovis advert, I'm sure, but a lot of it seems to be down to safe, unadventurous programming by planners who want a 'banker'.

I've never heard it performed live as I wouldn't feel satisfied with a concert where it was the main item.

What are everyone's thoughts on this work?

Love it - always have.

[Nick Armstrong]

Love it - always have.

Second that. It's one of those 'evergreen war-horses' () we had a thread about

[Roehre]

IMO not the greatest of Dvorak's symphonies (I think that's no.7), but despite its popularity and over-exposure I don't see why I should despise the work. The same manner of over-exposure applies unfortunately to many other important and great works too, only to mention the Beethoven orchestral works, or many of the pieces played/repeated ad nauseam on certain R3 programmes.

[Roslynmuse]

Agree with the three last posts (Nos 2 - 4). I got to know it (from the Toscanini NBC recording) when I was 13, in preparation for hearing it live. Some things in it still make me 'rubber-band' back to being that age: the lovely flute writing in the first two movements in particular (the minor key interlude in the second - ); I also learnt a lot about 'symphonic form' from the piece. Like Roehre, I don't think it's his best symphony overall (for me the last movement -again, despite some wonderful moments - lets it down - some faintly embarrassing 'padding' in the final pages) but how many symphonies have such a rich melodic store and - for the most part - a convincing and unselfconscious narrative thrust that one can grasp easily and never lets you go? And it's not Dvorak's fault that the advertising people got hold of it!

Re over-exposure - the easiest way to avoid it is - to avoid it! By which I mean, if you feel it's over-exposed or - more accurately - you've been over-exposed to it, have a break from it. But for many people a performance either broadcast or in concert will be their first experience of the piece and will (hopefully) be as magical as it obviously is to other people here. I haven't heard the whole piece for ages - am tempted to give it a spin!

[Petrushka]

In 40 years of concert-going I've never heard the 'New World' live either despite being extremely fond of it. One of the first symphonic recordings I bought was the VPO/Kertesz LP on Decca and I think it's just been reissued on Eloquence.

[Nick Armstrong]

the VPO/Kertesz LP on Decca and I think it's just been reissued on Eloquence.

EDIT: DUE TO THE PERILS OF POST-MIDNIGHT POSTING.... Actually, when writing the following post, I was thinking of the KONDRASHIN recording with the VPO on Decca, not the Kertesz...


One of the great orchestral recordings, I think. It's one of my test discs when buying hi fi (last time, 10 odd years ago...). Mandryka, if you find the piece has worn thin, try to hear this performance. Magic

[Pabmusic]

It's a lovely work. Yes, it has some faintly embarrassing passages - particularly the heavy reliance on diminished sevenths - but not one boring bit, and some wonderful tunes. I could name a dozen 'great' works I love that have places where I figuratively stifle a yawn; their earnestness doesn't permit of a smile. But you can smile with Dvorak.

[Petrushka]

One of the great orchestral recordings, I think. It's one of my test discs when buying hi fi (last time, 10 odd years ago...). Mandryka, if you find the piece has worn thin, try to hear this performance. Magic

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Australian%2BEloquence/4804847

[cloughie]

One of the great orchestral recordings, I think. It's one of my test discs when buying hi fi (last time, 10 odd years ago...). Mandryka, if you find the piece has worn thin, try to hear this performance. Magic

Cali - yes a great performance - I think marginally better than his LSO remake, only lacking the first movement repeat!
...but hasn't the New World fared well on record - there must be a score or two of really good performances available, chronologically from Toscanini and Talich through to Marin Alsop!

[Stunsworth]

How long ago was the Hovis ad? 30, 40 years?

The Kondrashin was one of the free CDs that I got with my first CD player - another was the Jessye Norman Strauss 4 last songs.

[Dave2002]

If you've not heard it live rectify that situation ASAP. The same goes for Dvorak's cello concerto.

[Nick Armstrong]

Cali - yes a great performance - I think marginally better than his LSO remake, only lacking the first movement repeat!
...but hasn't the New World fared well on record - there must be a score or two of really good performances available, chronologically from Toscanini and Talich through to marin Alsop!

See my edited #7

Proving the point in your second para, I was mistaken - I don't know the Kertesz/VPO/Decca performance at all!! I was referring in my head to the Kondrashin performance! Thanks to Mr Stunsworth for the reminder!

[kernelbogey]

Fortunately I've been little exposed to the Hovis advert. But I have a great affection for Dvorak.

My first exposure to serious music was at about age 5, when my eldest brother, at that time about 17, had begun taking an interest in it, and listened to lunchtime and evening concerts from the BBC. While I have no specific memories of Dvorak rep there was definitely a lot of his music played around that time, i.e. early 50s.

Now, I have relatives in South Tyrol, which was part of Austria until the end of World War I at which point it became part of Italy. (There's a long story to all that which will have to be told another time.) My Tyrolese cousin Paul played cornet in the village band, and he wasn't a bad player either. Our grandfather had been 'Obmann' of the band in earlier times, a designation which I suppose might be roughly translated as President.

Paul told me that Bohemia had had a big influence on Tyrolese band music. He said the Bohemian musicians had wandered the (Austro-Hungarian) Empire, and with them had brought the 3/4 dance known in Tyrol as a 'Boehmische'.

As a five year old I was besotted with the village band when I went there on family holidays and my earliest ambition was to be the band's conductor. I didn't at that age realise that it wasn't a full time job and that the band was made up of farmers, decorators, garage mechanics and the like, just as any village band would be.

I've yet to find out more about what they played in those days, but there is a strain of sentimental Austrian band music which has a particular ring to it. In recent years I've discovered that Fucik* was a typical composer of these marches, polkas and other pieces.

I'm not sufficiently musically educated to be able to articulate my next point but there is a tonal quality to Dvorak which I recognise in these Bohemian influences to Tyrolese, or Austrian, village band music.

I would be interested if anyone on the boards recognises what I'm talking about here and can articulate it more musically than I.

*Edit: Julius Fučík (1872 – 1916)

[Pabmusic]

...*Edit: Julius Fučík (1872 – 1916)

Fucik was Czech (or, I suppose, Bohemian). He's best known for Einzug der Gladiatoren (Entry of the Gladiators), beloved of many a circus performance. Try to hear Florentiner, his 'Italian' march, which is quite lovely. There are also a few pieces by Dvorak that fit in the same category, among them the Prague Waltzes and the Polonaise, which Dorati recorded with the LSO.