Music Matters at Free Thinking

[Serial_Apologist]

I feel slightly trepidatious inaugurating this thread, not having spotted it as being on, and only coming in towards the end of the evidently lively discussion.

Anybody else hear it? From what I did hear, Paul Morley made a spirited defense of musical innovation and heavily criticised R3 for marginalising it in the schedules.

[Old Grumpy]

I feel slightly trepidatious inaugurating this thread, not having spotted it as being on, and only coming in towards the end of the evidently lively discussion.

Anybody else hear it?

I woz there

And very interesting it was too. I thought Tom Service steered the discussion masterfully, and yes, Paul Morley more or less did say that - as it was going out live it could not be cut.

The Freethinking events are all available as podcasts and there is also a live videostream on the interweb. I presume this can also be viewed after the event. All details here http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/exzj3d

OG

[Serial_Apologist]

I woz there

And very interesting it was too. I thought Tom Service steered the discussion masterfully, and yes, Paul Morley more or less did say that - as it was going out live it could not be cut.

The Freethinking events are all available as podcasts and there is also a live videostream on the interweb. I presume this can also be viewed after the event. All details here http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/exzj3d

OG

Thanks v much OG.

Bully to Mr Morley, says I - he hasn't had a very good press here in the past!

I hope other boredees take a look and take up the discussion here!

[Sir Velo]

Just checked the Twitter feed. The customary retweets of the bland and the sycophantic (e.g."Yes! Classical music is for everyone - even Cain Dingle" - who he?). Some tweeter purporting to be the Bristol Choral Society said "there ARE people out there who would love it if encouraged in the right way" - whatever that might be, I leave to others to guess.

[french frank]

Bully to Mr Morley, says I - he hasn't had a very good press here in the past!

He was quite popular here recently when he had a real blast-off at the Classical Brits.

What did he mean by 'musical innovation'? Hear and Now? The erstwhile Mixing It?

[Serial_Apologist]

He was quite popular here recently when he had a real blast-off at the Classical Brits.

What did he mean by 'musical innovation'? Hear and Now? The erstwhile Mixing It?

Your guess as good as mine, ff. Not having heard any of Paul's musical efforts, I just picked and mixed from what he said in accordance with what I hoped he meant!

[teamsaint]

From what I know, Morley's main musical involvement was with The Art of Noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYiiMS1s-0c

Pretty well thought of in NME type circles, quite innovative i think, and had some success. Don't know exactly how involved he was, but he was on the team !

His main work has always been as a critic, I think.
Never afraid to speak his mind, and ocasionally write something I felt was rubbish.
On one occasion he seemed to spend two valuable pages of NME space doing a critique of a Marks and Spencer's blue cheese dressing, when he was supposed to be interviewing a band !
Perhaps he knew what he was doing.
Anyway, his track record speaks for itself, and he seems to be on the side of the good guys !

Edit: I think he may have been quite closely involved with Joy Division in their early days, though not as a musician.

[DracoM]

And he pretty forensically dismantled the idolisation of a huge amount of current pop, as well as classical channels and ensembles that aped pop / rock and marketed their output in the same way, as if that would 'reach da yoof'.

CFM got a bashing too in the insistence on their 'relaxing' epithet applied to almost everything they purvey.

Challenge, excitement in music, and a REAL smashing for where the current barren, tick box education system is going from everyone in the panel.

[Sir Velo]

This year's Music Matters at the Sage is here, entitled "Who's Really in Charge of the Classical Music World". The speakers included:Chief Executive of Sound and Music - Susanna Eastburn, property developer and creator of London concert venue King's Place - Peter Millican, harpsichordist and organist - Mahan Esfahani, Chief Executive of the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra - Stephen Maddock and composer, DJ and founder of the alternative classical club and record label Nonclassical - Gabriel Prokofiev.

Highlight for me was when Mahan Esfahani was asked what changes he'd like to see in the world of classical music broadcasting. "I'd like the presenters to stop telling me how great a performance was. I want to be able to make my own mind up about it". One could practically see Tom Service choking on his Mineral water as he mumbled something about "I'm sure your view will be heard".

Talk about biting the hand that used to feed you.

[Flay]

Thanks for that, Sir V. I shall record it for later listening.

Tom Service so often bellows out his opinions and ideas through the applause during R3 concerts, distracting from what we have heard.

[Old Grumpy]

This year's Music Matters at the Sage is here, entitled "Who's Really in Charge of the Classical Music World". The speakers included:Chief Executive of Sound and Music - Susanna Eastburn, property developer and creator of London concert venue King's Place - Peter Millican, harpsichordist and organist - Mahan Esfahani, Chief Executive of the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra - Stephen Maddock and composer, DJ and founder of the alternative classical club and record label Nonclassical - Gabriel Prokofiev.

Highlight for me was when Mahan Esfahani was asked what changes he'd like to see in the world of classical music broadcasting. "I'd like the presenters to stop telling me how great a performance was. I want to be able to make my own mind up about it". One could practically see Tom Service choking on his Mineral water as he mumbled something about "I'm sure your view will be heard".

Talk about biting the hand that used to feed you.

I don't think he did - but I can confirm that it was "Highland Spring" (still)

[french frank]

I don't think he did - but I can confirm that it was "Highland Spring" (still)

Three things I found interesting:

1. The inadequacy of music education impacting on audiences for classical music; the dread phrase 'dumbing down' was used.

2. No coverage of new music on R3; when TS mentioned Hear & Now, the speaker drew a parallel with Radio 1 covering all the new bands whereas H&N tended to stick with more established names in 'new music'

3. Mahan Esfahani's comment about being told how wonderful the music/performance is: he just said 'on radio' so it may have been US radio. I think probably this is something that Radio 3 does more than Classic FM(?), where the emphasis would be more on the relaxing, chill-out quality of the music.

[MrGongGong]

Three things I found interesting:

1. The inadequacy of music education impacting on audiences for classical music; the dread phrase 'dumbing down' was used.

I must have a listen to this
Though there is a danger that education is used as a substitute for audience development
We might work with "classical" music in educational contexts BUT the point of education is not to "sell" Bruckner or Wagner , people might choose their music if they become aware of it's existence but its a dangerous path to take (and one that has failed in the past) to see music education as a means of building the "audiences of tomorrow" ........

[french frank]

I must have a listen to this
Though there is a danger that education is used as a substitute for audience development
We might work with "classical" music in educational contexts BUT the point of education is not to "sell" Bruckner or Wagner , people might choose their music if they become aware of it's existence but its a dangerous path to take (and one that has failed in the past) to see music education as a means of building the "audiences of tomorrow" ........

I don't think it specifically mentioned schools: audience development surely involves a degree of 'education'?

(It's about 27 mins in)

And surely part of the problem is that young people aren't aware of the existence of a wide range of music? That includes 'new music' where they spoke about the tokenism of having a new piece at the beginning of a concert programme so that they get it over and done with before the 'proper music' begins. (So much for the Urban Classic Prom's timid offering).

[MrGongGong]

I don't think it specifically mentioned schools: audience development surely involves a degree of 'education'?

(It's about 27 mins in)

And surely part of the problem is that young people aren't aware of the existence of a wide range of music? That includes 'new music' where they spoke about the tokenism of having a new piece at the beginning of a concert programme so that they get it over and done with before the 'proper music' begins. (So much for the Urban Classic Prom's timid offering).

I wasn't necessarily referring just to schools and yes audience development does involve education in the wider sense.
I think some folk should stop doing "new" music if they don't believe in it rather than be tokenistic.
IN my experience some of the "problem" is not that folks are unaware but more that we have a culture where music is seen to only have a single function (which is why X Factor etc is so popular and idiots like Eric Whitacre and JLW are facilitated to spout sh*te on otherwise interesting BBC4 documentaries) .........